3D Doors.

Projects around retexturing and remodeling Descent

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3D Doors.

Postby Creator » Wed May 23, 2012 1:08 pm

All doors are flat in D2X XL now and their opening animation is frame-based. It does not look good. Is it possible to implement normal 3D doors like in other shooters?

I modelled an example. 305 triangles. Optimized.
D1Door01.jpg
D1Door01.jpg (31.4 KiB) Viewed 5515 times


I have the same idea about grids as well as different metal overlays and such stuff. In other words, we should turn every texture with holes marked in alpha channel into 3D objects. It will increase level detail a lot.

Lets take this for example. Metal structure on the left is drawn as flat texture with holes now. It will look better in full 3D.
http://www.descent2.de/images/missions/ ... ns11_1.jpg

And here are metal overlays from the right and from the left:
http://www.descent2.de/images/missions/ ... ns11_4.jpg
3D overlays could be better.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Hawkins » Wed May 23, 2012 2:41 pm

I highly approve of the idea. But at first hand it would be inconsistent since, besides overlays, some rock textures themselves represent a rock pattern to steep (in depth) to be actually looking flat. So that would need fixing in a perfect world. If however we commit to the earlier step of merely giving doors volume, but maintaining the flat texture, it could be consistent throughout. Same goes for metallic grid overlays. An opinion.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Sirius » Thu May 24, 2012 1:22 am

This can't trivially be done everywhere (doors are currently placed in levels with the expectation that they'll be zero-thickness), so any such attempt would have to be aimed at future levels.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Pumo » Thu May 24, 2012 4:33 am

Sirius wrote:...so any such attempt would have to be aimed at future levels.


And with that, D2X-XL will be officially the real D4 !! (IMO)
That way, new XL-exclusive levels will be a true atomic bomb, with nothing to envy from D3. :muscle:

But, however, I'm pretty sure this will very hard to implement, and with that said, I don't consider this to be a really feasible possibility, until Diedel/Karx says otherwise.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Creator » Thu May 24, 2012 6:15 am

Sirius wrote:doors are currently placed in levels with the expectation that they'll be zero-thickness.

It is just one of 2 problems. The second is that opened door slides into wall and can appear from another side if another tunnel is near. But everthing can be fixed. I played all D1 and D2 levels and I can say that about 95% of doors will be ok and no troubles will be noticed. The rest of doors will have thickness problem you described or sliding-thtough-wall problem. It will be small ammount of such doors and we will need to extract levels and fix level geometry around them. Yes, it is not easy. But there it a way out and result worth such work.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Hawkins » Thu May 24, 2012 1:18 pm

Creator wrote:... opened door slides into wall and can appear from another side if another tunnel is near....

Well, that's just practically 4D mechanics in rendering. In other words, if 4D levels work in XL, so would doors, opening, overlapping neighboring spaces. Only way to make this a problem is to have connected space around the door, which is already unnatural even in standard descent. So I'd say 100% of levels are OK, not just 95%. :P

I will partly agree with Pumo, however my feeling is that as long as the engine is based on cubing spaces, 3D doors are still standing out. That's only a consistency problem though, as builders can pull off wonders even with this engine; in XL even more so.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Sirius » Thu May 24, 2012 4:25 pm

There are third-party levels too. We can't just assume we can go alter every level ever made so that it doesn't look ghastly in D2X-XL - that's a huge amount of work (even checking whether or not it's required is a huge amount of work, never mind the difficult cases where the door cavity is conveniently going to intersect another room). There has to be a 2D fallback.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby karx11erx » Thu May 24, 2012 7:10 pm

If you have forking corridors, and you are at their junction and shoot at one door in one of the forks, you will see it slide into the other fork because the renderer will show all that's visible in all segments visible to the viewer.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Creator » Fri May 25, 2012 6:48 am

karx11erx wrote:If you have forking corridors, and you are at their junction and shoot at one door in one of the forks, you will see it slide into the other fork because the renderer will show all that's visible in all segments visible to the viewer.


There are 4 solutions:
1) Rotate the door in this corridor 90 degrees making it open up/down, not towards another corridor.
2) Edit level geometry turning V-shaped fork into U-shaped. There will be enough space inside a wall to hold opened parts of a door.
3) Create mini-portal. Each time the door opens, it gets cut by 4 clipping planes around it.
4) Model a new alternate door for this especial case which opens into one side or maybe opens like real life door in your room or maybe pleats while opening. Closed door: |----------| Opened door: |/\/......\/\|.

We can also use a combination of these solutions for different cases.

This is finished and optimized 3D door with opening animation in ASE format and with new texture:
http://contra.cncguild.net/Descent/3Ddoor04.zip

Try to insert it.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Hawkins » Fri May 25, 2012 9:33 am

Yes, that was my point. Cases in which 3D doors would break down like this, are also cases in which current 2D door animations would look unnatural, having the doors sheets disappearing into nothingness. You always wall up the surrounding of your doors with at least 0 degrees (co-planar to door) to exactly give this impression: that the door sheets dig in. This design detail also ensures that 3D doors can work in Descent. Does that means a (bad) level builder cannot use the 3D doors the wrong (and totally unnecessary) way? Yes they can, however I don't see how that poses a reason, let alone a discouragement in using them.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Creator » Fri May 25, 2012 11:58 am

In other words, if 3D doors come, we will all die!
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Alter-Fox » Fri May 25, 2012 1:57 pm

Of awesomeness.
But yeah.
We live in a universe... It's distracting
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Ben K » Sun May 27, 2012 9:46 am

With the rest of the game full of flat surfaces, this isn't going to be time well spent.
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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby karx11erx » Sun May 27, 2012 11:20 am

Ben K wrote:With the rest of the game full of flat surfaces, this isn't going to be time well spent.

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Re: 3D Doors.

Postby Creator » Mon May 28, 2012 10:43 am

Ben K wrote:With the rest of the game full of flat surfaces, this isn't going to be time well spent.


Conflict detected. Expression is not compatible with this:
http://www.descent2.de/images/missions/ ... ens7_3.jpg

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