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Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 7:14 am
by karx11erx
Hi Volfram,

Please regard: One bug per ticket, one ticket per bug.

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 3:21 pm
by Volfram
Sirius wrote:Wha... does nobody ever use the keypad shortcuts for this? The thought of doing serious work by chain-clicking buttons makes my mind boggle... and entering in co-ordinates manually, I'm really surprised you didn't just give up on level editing for being too time-consuming if that's what you were doing beforehand.

THERE ARE KEYBOARD SHORTCUTS!? I noticed the little numbers in the corners of the editor panel(I have been using the arrow keys to navigate my mine), but when I tried pushing those keys, I didn't see anything. Honestly, the chain-clicking's not that bad(not for what I'm currently trying to do, anyway), but manual point entry would be a lot faster(and in fact, unless there are certain tools which I have not been led to believe exist, it's probably the fastest way for me to work when setting major rooms). It's not bad, really. I still expect the texture design, cube settings, and object placement to take more than geometry design. I just thought it was limitations do to the editor being based on DMB.

[edit] Manual has been scanned in and uploaded by Weyrman(apparently), and can be found here. I am reading it now.[/edit]

I mean, I'm not trying to be a jerk about this - I'm just surprised that it seems everyone who talks about it is doing Descent level editing the slow way... maybe there's just a lack of visibility, discoverability, nobody ever (ever - probably true, too) reads the manual... maybe I should post a poll on DBB to find out... :)

well I did read through all of the pages in this pageset, but some of them may need a small update with what I hear are newer versions. got a look in the original DMB1 manual several ages ago, but it was a copy belonging to one of my brother's friends. If there's a full manual out there somewhere, especially if it has a tutorial or two on some of the rules, I'd love to see it.

P.S. Quickest way to find out if bug tickets for issues exist is to look for them on sourceforge.net. You don't even need an account to do that.

That occurred to me not more than five minutes after my post... :oops:


Pumo wrote:I think you can post tickets of your 3 issues with no problems, as most likely they are related to the new version of DLE-XP,
As version 1.8 had a complete code overhaul so there's a lot of new bugs that needs to be covered.

Oh, yeah, and you don't need to have D2X-XL installed for DLE-XP to work (even if you only have the original 1.2 DOS version it should work right).

So feel free to post your bug tickets on the sourceforge tracker. :)

The nonexistent walls and game-crashing occurred in versions 1.8.22 and 1.8.30. The crashing on manual point entry occurred in 1.8.22 only, so it probably got fixed in the interim somewhere. I'll look at the bug tracker.

I had expected that D2X-XL might work better with levels created by the tool developed by the same person/group, but honestly, all I was really after was a no-hassle experience that got me in and playing the game as quickly as possible. DXX-Rebirth did this, D2X-XL didn't. I'm currently running the most recent version of DXX-Rebirth as of about 3 weeks ago(perhaps I should check if he's released any new builds). I'm not sure which "original" Descent version this corresponds with. I thought it might be 1.0, but obviously, this isn't the place to ask such things.

While I can reproduce all three issues fairly reliably, it's a toss-up as to whether the "no-walls" bug or the "crashout" bug will be replicated at any given time when using the Curve generator, particularly since the latter is probably a collection of several smaller glitches. I'd like to get a bit more predictability in that before posting a ticket.

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 4:28 pm
by karx11erx
Please point out flaws or obmissions in the DLE-XP online pages in a bug report. Multiple issues per report allowed here - please structure them by topic (segments/walls/triggers/... )

I am maintaining a worklog (find the link on the home page www.descent2.de) where you can find a pretty recent article about my rewriting DLE-XP.

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 8:28 pm
by Volfram
Went to post bug reports and found out that I couldn't reproduce the errors as reliably as I'd thought. Also found where someone uploaded the original DMB2 manual, so I'll be trying to read up and determine what is and isn't a bug before I go posting at random.

I checked the SourceForge file library and didn't find one: Is there a way to get my hands on one of the DLE-XP 1.7.XX builds so I can see what's changed?(I'm assuming the 1.7 builds were more or less stable, as people have obviously made a lot of maps with the program, but I can't really be sure without messing with it.)

Perhaps there's a more appropriate place to post. The following notes are primarily for my own benefit but I'm also partly asking if anyone else has seen them?

direct vertex editing now acts... strangely. Sometimes, it tries to edit vertexes from the "other selection" cube, sometimes it tries to edit vertexes from a cube which is not selected. I'll want to examine this more before creating a report.(IE figure out if there's any predictable pattern to it)

Tried to reproduce the invisible walls bug with 1.8.30, got a crashout instead. I can't seem to get Descent 2 to load any maps with invisible walls anymore.(I suppose you could consider this an improvement) Using the "Diagnostics" tab indicated that cube connections were odd(mostly "Child does not connect to parent cube"), but I don't think I'm familiar enough with the level format to draw any real conclusions about this yet. Again, I suspect locating a 1.7.xx version might be helpful.

Speaking of the Diagnostics tab, I see a checkbox for "automatically fix errors," but there doesn't seem to be any manual control for this. Is there one?

Several of the commands seem to not do what I expect them to do. Again, I'd like to compare to an earlier version where they presumably worked.

I'll post bug reports when I'm sure I know what to put in them. Until then, I doubt they'd be very helpful.

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:42 pm
by Pumo
If you need an earlier version i've got some on my archive.
I can send it to your mail if you wish.

Posted: Tue Oct 26, 2010 9:48 pm
by Volfram
That would be wonderful, thanks.

lonewolf325 [at] gmail.com

Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 3:02 am
by Pumo
OK, version 1.7.80 sent. :)

Re: DXX-Rebirth Compatibility?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 1:22 pm
by Xfing
I wanted to make a separate thread for this, but this one seems fine to post the problem in:

DLE seems to corrupt ANY custom map when I convert it to Vertigo. Even though I do have Vertigo and Rebirth can play the Vertigo mission itself with no problems at all, any custom level converted to Vertigo will not run on Rebirth. Upon choosing the level from the menu, Rebirth simply exits and no error message is given.

Do you think this is a DLE problem or a Rebirth problem?

Re: DXX-Rebirth Compatibility?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 4:47 pm
by Sirius
Well, if Rebirth won't open Descent 2: Vertigo, then it's Rebirth. If it will, then it's probably DLE. (Probably. :))

Re: DXX-Rebirth Compatibility?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:42 pm
by Xfing
It does play the normal Vertigo mission with no hitches.

Re: DXX-Rebirth Compatibility?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 5:49 pm
by karx11erx
I cannot help with Rebirth problems, even if they may be rooted in something DLE does, since I have no way to debug Rebirth and find out what makes it crash. You need to ask Zico for help and come back to me with whatever flaw in DLE generated Vertigo conversions he may detect.

Re: DXX-Rebirth Compatibility?

Posted: Fri Feb 22, 2013 7:30 pm
by Xfing
karx11erx wrote:I cannot help with Rebirth problems, even if they may be rooted in something DLE does, since I have no way to debug Rebirth and find out what makes it crash. You need to ask Zico for help and come back to me with whatever flaw in DLE generated Vertigo conversions he may detect.


Yeah, I already sent him an e-mail. I'm afraid the problem may be something I did, since I think that long ago Rebirth used to run my custom Vertigo missions just fine. I have, however, since updated both my DLE and Rebirth, with new .ini files, and the problem persists. Well, we'll see what the issue is this time.