Creating balls

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Woodpecker
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Woodpecker » Wed Apr 11, 2012 11:06 am

Sirius wrote:No tetrahedrons then?

Still, it seems this holds very interesting possibilities. :)

I can totally see someone doing an outdoors area where you fly around the Sphinx and the Pyramids of Giza! :lol:

Back to the matter in hand:
Aus-RED-5 wrote:Next..... you need to add more light sources if you wish to be able to see! ;)


The mine check shows no errors (although I did some bad placement in the starting tunnel with the lighting texture. Oh well, I'll fix that later). Did someone say I needed lights? I have filled every side of the ball with a round yellow light. This was partly a joke, partly a good way for me to get used to the editor, and partly because it was just too darn tempting! :mrgreen: The interesting thing is that some of the tunnels of the cross show up as shadows behind the walls of the ball. Again, I don't understand this: the cross should be clearly visible in the middle of the ball. On the game's automap it is, in reality it is not. I appreciate the lighting texture is somewhat transparent, because you can see the entrance tunnel into the ball as a shadow, but even so, it doesn't seem right that the cross isn't there. Is there a bug somewhere or is it a beginner's error on my part? :think:

I have attached the updated file for you to examine.

P.S.
Karx: under the lightning settings it should be "smooth" and not "smoothe". A forgivable spelling error, but I know you're a perfectionist. :)
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Aus-RED-5
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Aus-RED-5 » Wed Apr 11, 2012 12:04 pm

You've set your textures with light sources in the wrong order.
This is partly why the lights aren't emitting correctly.

1st: (primary texture) rock349
2nd: (secondary - overlay textures) ceil003 - light
Image

If you set overlay textures as primary. You'll get that empty space look that's not good for the game. :P
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Hawkins » Wed Apr 11, 2012 1:00 pm

Good point about tetrahedrons. Although you can still do them. Technically even as it is, you can still collapse elements, by simply overlaying them. Not possible with re-sizing tools, but with moving tools. Sp if you can make sure the game behaves correctly in that regard, with no artifacts, then you may be able to bypass further engine changes. Of course it's uglier than the clean solution you suggest. A side effect is texture stretching; it's gonna be come very... problematic.

ON a side note. One method is to collapse elements to lower dimensional ones like you said, to reach the shape of pyramid. One other could be to simply remove elements, reducing the shape to the immediately lower possible one. (difficult) The latter would allow the opposite method of adding elements to expand a shape. In other words, for the sake of creating proper spheres, we then will want to create octagonal filaments and so whatever not. All this is already possible with current cube handling, with some serious acrobatics and imagination.

My point is that the "sphere" is only one thing that has come up as a wanted structure. Eventually more will come, and I am not sure if it is practical to facilitate each and every one of them, or stop in the middle of it for that matter. In other words we must indeed think in terms of generic methods (like shape editing by adding/removing geometric elements) and proper adjustment of related tools (like texture alignment) to facilitate what is wanted now also ensuring however, the longevity of this support, to avoid being dragged into changes all the time. Changing the engine like that is a big move, and it's gonna trigger more "wants".
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Sirius » Wed Apr 11, 2012 5:09 pm

Using current cube support actually is a problem for this. Think about a box shape with a "Y" inside it; this is three cubes, two with four sides, the other with three. If you make the collapsed side of the three-side segment the middle of the "Y", you have a problem: you have a zero-length side that joins to nothing, while on the other side, the two cubes are joined. Thus you'll probably run into an invisible line in the level that stops you from moving.
Now, a solution would be to make this four segments; there is also a zero-width cube between the two four-sided cubes. But if you make the level rely on collapsed sides heavily enough you'll have to start spamming them absolutely everywhere. You could of course put the collapsed side on one of the other two points of the triangle, but that only works if there aren't cubes in those directions too.

So, this can get kind of messy. On the bright side, it does make things like a .BLX exporter for Blender possible, which has... Advantages. :mrgreen:
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Re: Creating balls

Postby karx11erx » Wed Apr 11, 2012 8:55 pm

DLE-XP and D2X-XL will actually remove vertices from collapsed segment sides and not doing fake shapes by making them overlap. That's much easier and cleaner to handle.
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Pumo » Thu Apr 12, 2012 2:36 am

Sirius wrote:...On the bright side, it does make things like a .BLX exporter for Blender possible, which has... Advantages. :mrgreen:


Oh my, this is something I would REALLY love to see! :bounce:
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Woodpecker » Thu Apr 12, 2012 7:26 am

Hawkins wrote:In other words, for the sake of creating proper spheres, we then will want to create octagonal filaments and so whatever not.

An easy way to create cubes shaped as pentagons, hexagons, and octagons? YES PLEASE! :bounce:
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Re: Creating balls

Postby karx11erx » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:08 am

No way. I will not start to introduce more complex shapes - particularly if you can build them from the simple ones.
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Woodpecker » Thu Apr 12, 2012 10:43 am

karx11erx wrote:No way. I will not start to introduce more complex shapes - particularly if you can build them from the simple ones.

Oh! :x :P :lolol:

Were you joking about the pyramid thing as well?
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Alter-Fox » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:31 pm

No he wasn't -- read the development blah.
And he has a point, it is really easy to build pentagons, hexagons, octagons... nonagons... dodecahedrons... from cubes.
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Re: Creating balls

Postby karx11erx » Thu Apr 12, 2012 12:49 pm

Since when is a pyramid more complex than a cube (hint: count number of faces and face corners).
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Hawkins » Thu Apr 12, 2012 9:40 pm

Technically it is, due to the lesser degrees of symmetry.
:P
Siriusly, point taken about more complex shapes, I was actually thinking something on the lines of direct 3D editing. (looooooong term...)
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Woodpecker » Fri Apr 13, 2012 8:41 am

Alter-Fox wrote:No he wasn't -- read the development blah.
And he has a point, it is really easy to build pentagons, hexagons, octagons... nonagons... dodecahedrons... from cubes.

Now I think about it, that's a good point. Still, it'll be very nice to be able to do things with triangles. :D
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Aus-RED-5 » Fri Apr 13, 2012 1:49 pm

Woodpecker wrote:Again, I don't understand this: the cross should be clearly visible in the middle of the ball. On the game's automap it is, in reality it is not. I appreciate the lighting texture is somewhat transparent, because you can see the entrance tunnel into the ball as a shadow, but even so, it doesn't seem right that the cross isn't there. Is there a bug somewhere or is it a beginner's error on my part? :think:


Sorry... somehow I managed to miss this.
It's hard to explain..... but for the cubes to be seen. You'll have to make the tunnels from within the sphere. All cubes need to be joined together to be seen.
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Re: Creating balls

Postby Weyrman » Fri Apr 13, 2012 11:04 pm

Also, your exit door is set the wrong way around, meaning that the trigger arrow is pointing out rather than in. What happens is that the door opens and you can fly through it and down the tunnel without the end sequence starting. It is not until you fly back out the door that the sequence triggers.
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