A word on forum bans

All non Descent related stuff. Keep it civilized, this is not an NHB area.
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karx11erx
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A word on forum bans

Postby karx11erx » Fri Feb 25, 2011 7:12 pm

I would like to drop a few words on forum bans.

The main reason I am banning people is that they have become offensive to the extent of being insultive and have not backed up when being told that they have gone to far, but instead have insisted. Since after a ban you cannot access your PM, and since I wish every forum user to understand what has been going on I will usually post a brief message about the issue. This isn't bad-mouthing the banned person, but simply an act of information.

The first ban usually is for two weeks to allow them to get some distance to the issue, chill out, and look at the issue from a different angle.

People who chose to come back after they have been readmitted only to continue the way that had led to their first ban will be permanently banned. If a banned person choses to insult me in other places after the first ban and I find out, I will not readmit that person to the forum - I think that is pretty understandable.

Even then I have readmitted people to the forum who have approached me later on and have honestly apologized. In such a case I believe the person has proved that he/she deserves a new chance, and personally I am done with what had happened after an apology. There have however been people who have made it very clear by their words and actions that they better never make it (back) here.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby blarget# » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:21 pm

I am also a example of this. I bad mouthed and got a temporary ban. then came back after saying i was sorry for what i did. im pretty sure diedel and i are cool. :cheers:
another note to people so you don't get banned in the 1st place. agree to disagree, chill out, and walk away.


@diedel, i hope whoever you banned has learned what ever lesson he needs to learn.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:48 pm

The funny thing seems to be that a few people I had to ban in the end, while still disliking me for it, seem to have learnt a lesson helping them to do better elsewhere.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby Sirius » Sun Feb 27, 2011 9:32 am

"Let it go" is a good policy, I agree. Saving face is rarely worth it, and refusing to drop an argument is rarely saving face (in the eyes of others) anyway.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby Capt. Blackwood » Mon Feb 28, 2011 6:37 pm

Couldn't agree more.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby karx11erx » Sun May 01, 2011 2:24 pm

Due to recent events I would like to point out another reason for getting banned from here.

This is a private project, and while I am doing my best to make D2X-XL work for as many people as possible, it is entirely up to me when and how I will invest time in doing so. Besides that there are issues I have no influence on, like problems only arising on hardware I don't have. So if people keep pushing their (technical) problems into my face on every available channel, sending me PMs, spamming this forum with technical info instead of or additionally to posting a bug report on Sourceforge.net, despite already having received a response and having been told to stop it, they have good chances to get banned. This chance rises to almost complete inevitability if such people start or keep ranting about me in other forums, probably going as far as to make untrue statements.

Unfortunately, there are some people who do not stop until - despite my best efforts - I have to resort to this last consequence.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby TheZealotQ » Mon May 02, 2011 6:35 pm

Not that I have been banned... [However, some of the terse replies of "this belongs on sourceforge" which made me think maybe i was being considered for banning. hmm.]

I think my errors came from a lack of familiarity as to what belonged in the forum, and what belonged on sourceforge because I was not an avid reader of the forum. Since I dont have any technical skills, I felt that I couldnt contribute to the project and therefore stayed away from the forum. I have since learned more about the forum, partially by reading all 40 pages of the development thread, what the forum is all about.

Originally I had thought of sourceforge more as a to-do-list or official list, ie a place for ideas that were more fully developed in the forums as to whether or not diedel liked the idea, it was technically feasible, or some other qualifier...

As for bugs reports in the forum, my thought was: is it just me experiencing this quirk? Is it due to some odd misbehavior of my hardware/(mis)configuration. If someone else had the trouble, or if diedel deemed it serious enough I would put it onto sourceforge. I have since learned I was mistaken and to go to sourceforge directly with any bugs. Later, I read all the kinds of insanity people would dump into sourceforge, from the inane to the highly subjective.

Long story short: I am glad that you took the time to lay out ground rules in a thread because the rules regarding posting were not clear to me at first. I have no desire to offend, but since I have massive ignorance, some infractions were inevitable.

thanks diedel and keep up the good work.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby karx11erx » Mon May 02, 2011 8:18 pm

Maybe I am too strict at times regarding what people should post here and what should go to Sourceforge, because they cannot always judge it like I do.

Anyway, just posting about problems with D2X-XL here is no reason for a ban. The last person banned spammed me everywhere, didn't stop after having been told three times, and started to insult me in other forums. Unless the post is very technical, so that only I can deal with it, I just leave to one of our experts here to help.

I do however have that nice, big signature with all those friendly colors directing people who are new to this place to all the important threads and pages.

The simple point about bug tickets on SF.net is that it offers a perfect format for me. It gives me a quick overview over the bugs and their status, and doesn't tend to get disorganized like a forum with its greater freedom of posting does. Actually posting on SF.net is the best and fastest way to direct my attention to problems people have with D2X-XL or DLE-XP - add to that the bonus of making my heart rejoice that people actually listen to what I am saying and follow it, thus increasing my willingness to deal with their problem. ;)
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby Alter-Fox » Mon May 02, 2011 10:56 pm

karx11erx wrote:I do however have that nice, big signature with all those friendly colors directing people who are new to this place to all the important threads and pages.


Too bad so many people don't see it. I think part of the problem may be misinterpretation.

Thinking on it now, it might actually work better if you put the link to the forum rules at the end of your sig instead of the beginning. I think what might be happening with some people is they just glance at it, see the forum rules part, and then decide it's all probably stuff they already know (seeing as the rules for most forums are pretty much the same). They may also assume after seeing 'Forum Rules' first that all of the links lead to places on the forums, which then causes the forum title 'D2X-XL Help' to become misleading.
I might also suggest putting the Bug and Support Trackers as the first link in the signature because it's what people tend to not see/get wrong the most - it might help things if that's what they saw first when they glanced at your sig.
Maybe also if you changed it to 'Bug Reporting Site & Support Trackers', or something like that, could make it clearer that that's where the bug reports and support requests go. Using the word Site would also imply it's a different website than the forums.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby TheZealotQ » Wed May 04, 2011 4:40 am

I know that when I first came to the forums I didn't loiter forever on the information in diedel's sig because I wasnt sure if it was up-to-date or comprehensive. I also thought that it would largely rehash what I had already read on descent2.de. I would find other tidbits about switches in other forum posts, probably out of date, but I wouldnt notice the date and would begin merrily adding them to my ini file. Moreover, in some of the posts, someone explains how a certain tweak would benefit performance. I wasnt sure if certain configurations or tweaks would burden my underpowered CPU or only effect my comparatively capacious video ram. Intent on getting the best visuals on the lowest powered hardware, I would inevitably tinker away until I broke my installation of d2x-xl.

Perhaps if diedel indicated last time each sig was updated, that might help. Since d2x-xl is an evolving product, indeed highly changeable, much advice changes as well, leaving some people confused. I was excited when smoke was first released over a year ago, and brought down a machine in the process. Diedel has since rewritten the software behind smoke, several times it seems since, making tweaking change dramatically.

I am very happy to say that diedel has put so much polish into d2x-xl that I can now enable many effects that initially were quite burdensome on my hardware. d2xl-xl is a product for anyone to be proud to be a part of, even if just as an end-user. However, when I only read patchnotes, I was left a bit astonished sometimes when I patched. Reading the development thread was an eye opener.

Also: on the outdated advice note: I was only able to correct the scratchy (sound cutting out when many sounds are played) hires sound problem by enabling hires sound with hires_sound 2 in the ini and disabling -sound22k. Isn't 22k sound low-res? I was confused for a long time by the advice to download the hires sounds, enable them with hires_sound 2, but the default .ini still recommending also using -sound22k. I feel confused just trying to explain the issue, but what works for me on Windows 7 is contrary to the advice given in diedel's sig on switches. I understood it as outdated advice that appears like it is up-to-date, but I could be wrong. I am just glad to have sound again after playing d2x-xl for a long time in silence.
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Re: A word on forum bans

Postby karx11erx » Wed May 04, 2011 9:40 am

The only information that changes from time to time (with long intervals in between) is the tweaking information. All other information as good as never changes, or only does in a minor way. So saying "I never knew what was up to date and what was outdated so I didn't bother reading it at all" is a really bad excuse. If people aren't sure about it they can always ask. Actually I believe the true reason is that people want to put as little effort in it as possible. It bugs me that I have put so much work and diligence in creating all these guides and making them really accessible, and so few people bother to take the few extra minutes to read through the parts relevant to them.

I am however glad to hear that there are a few people who actually read my dev blah. Hint: If you don't know the worklog you will like it even more, because unlike the dev blah it consists of complete articles, often with pictures or movies. ;)

The installation guide explicitly states that installing and enabling hires sound is required (not optional). Are you sure -sound22k has any influence on sound quality?

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