Descent : Underground

All non Descent related stuff. Keep it civilized, this is not an NHB area.
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Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Wed Mar 11, 2015 5:32 am

http://descent-underground.com/

What are your opinions, thoughts?
For me, I think I will prefer Sol Contingency, but still I do support everything Descent related, so...

As a side note and as I noticed that there are a lot of misunderstandings everywhere regarding this new project:
For now it will be a Multiplayer MOBA game only, but on the future they will be adding a Single-Player campaign (or so that's what they said to me) that will tell the events before Descent 1, and you will see the Pyro-GX at later stages of the game, as well as some robots.

Also, there will be a suscription but only for special access to their forums and developer stuff, not for stuff in-game (although they may include DLC :roll:, but I don't know for sure ).

-

But still, Sol Contingency looks more promising (even if it won't feature anything related to the Descent brand)...
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby suchman » Wed Mar 11, 2015 6:47 am

This doesn't look like Descent at all. Wouldn't even call it Descent-related. Yeah, it's vaguely in the same ballpark as far as the genre is concerned, but that's pretty much where any similarities end. From what they've shown:

- approach to level design is completely wrong

- ship design bears no resemblance to anything Descent (plus, it baffles me why you'd opt not to include the one iconic bit of design/artwork associated with the license you're supposedly basing your game on in any way shape or form. Why wouldn't you do that? Especially since you're appealing to the fanbase of that game. Weird.)

- game looks and feels sluggish

- things like a persistent universe and tech tree upgrades etc. don't fit the spirit and totally miss the point of Descent

etc.

Hell, even the music choice supports the thesis that these guys just don't 'get it.' Seems like they've been making a game and just ended up slapping a Descent license on top of it without changing anything, including the assets.

Add the terrible monetization system, selling ships in tiers etc. is just icing on the cake. Pay 2 win in my Descent? No, thanks.

Frankly, I'd urge fans of Descent not to support this project and throw money at the Sol Contingency guys instead. Wait for the crowdfunding campaign, send them a donation through Paypal, a check, buy them a beer or something. It seems like they got shafted because of this Underground thing and that's just not cool. Call me a weirdo, but upon comparing the Kickstarter footage with, say, this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5WyhK4Fbawg

I can't justify supporting Underground in any way.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Wed Mar 11, 2015 9:28 am

suchman,

how do you know how thtat game feels? Did you play it already? I thought it will only be available in 2016? Or is it just your impression from the video? Sorry, but that is not a good reference.

I don't mind new looks and some new game mechanics, and I also don't mind different ship designs. The only thing that is a no-go for me is a monetization scheme in the game, at least if the game is not for free already. Maybe the reason Interplay shafted SolC is because they didn't have anything in their game design promising a constant flow of revenues for Interplay ....

Anyway, I knew a real new Descent would never be going to happen. Somehow that game seems to be cursed.

If I have to spend money for progress in a game, I'll rather wait for Armored Warfare though.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby suchman » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:41 pm

karx11erx wrote:suchman,

how do you know how thtat game feels? Did you play it already? I thought it will only be available in 2016? Or is it just your impression from the video? Sorry, but that is not a good reference.

I disagree. You don't have to play both Counter Strike and DOOM to determine that one isn't at all like the other and that both feel vastly different despite the fact that both belong to the same genre. Based on what they've shown in the pitch this is exactly the scale in which Descent: Underground differs from the games it's supposedly trying to invoke. I know how Descent looks and feels. There's no other game that plays the same. The glimpses they've shown felt nothing like Descent and there was no attempt to make that footage look like Descent instead of an entirely unrelated 6DoF game.

In any event, this does make me wonder as to what exactly is the point of showing any footage if it doesn't even hint at what you're making. "Hey, look, there's, like, spaceships and rocks, and stuff. It must be Descent!" Other than the obvious explanation that they've already made this and didn't think - for whatever reason - that the thing they made was worth revisiting or ditching completely.

I'll happily admit to having been wrong about the project (not about the footage shown thus far, though) if it ends up feeling like Descent.

Oh, and I forgot about Herve Caen being involved in this - in that they have to license the title from "Interplay". Not someone you want your company associated with, even in that capacity.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:03 pm

Bollox. You can never really tell how something is until you have done it. They only thing I may be able to see is that the ship doesn't wiggle when stationary, but that is something the effect of which you do not notice when moving in Descent anyway.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:13 am

Anyway, the more I see of D:U, the less I like it. Here's what I posted as a comment in SolC's facebook channel:

karx11erx wrote:I have to say that I hate how things are going with the Descent Franchise now. You guys had an as good as working Descent successor / clone on a modern graphics and physics engine and got shafted for some dubious two guy company (or that is represented by two guys to the public) who have nothing but a few W.I.P. videos showing something significantly less Descent with the Descent label slapped on top of it, and today I even read they hope (maybe even asked) some of the SolC staff to switch to their team. Again: I hate how that went. This is completely honorless in my eyes, most of all of course by Interplay, but as it turns out, the D:U guys are also sorely lacking in this regard. They are getting wind of a lot of money potentially being in this for them, and when money comes into play too many people drop any decency they may have had beforehand. I also have to say that nothing the D:U people are pleading to dispel those doubts in their motives sounds anything else than just political. I just smell greed there. I also believe that SolC got shafted because the dev team isn't purely U.S. based, sacrificed to that typical, retarded Redneck U.S. patriotism.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:21 pm

I'm keeping an eye on the situation and so far Descent Underground looks like the kind of thing I avoid. Sol Contingency on the other hand has my utmost attention and support.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Mon Mar 16, 2015 7:00 pm

I think this quick message from the developers deserves a read: http://descendentstudios.com/community/ ... ng/?p=8752

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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Wed Mar 18, 2015 5:10 pm

Kewl, the D:U campaign finally reached $200,000! :D

Let's support this project as it may be the last oportunity we have to get a game with the Descent brand!

As already specified by the developers (on their forums, on the KS comments and even corrected on their main KS page):

Yeah, it will include Single-Player and Co-op.
Yeah, it will feature D1/2 flight mechanics.
Yeah, it will have a Descent-style ship (the Torch KS, precursor of the Pyro)
Yeah, it will narrate how the PTMC and Robots came to be.
Yeah, every ship can be earned in-game without paying a cent (even if there may be an option to accelerate the acquiring by buying the ship earlier).

Nope, it won't be needed any subscription to play.
Nope, it won't be a MOBA.
Nope, it won't be pay-to-win.
Nope, micro-transactions won't be needed for crucial ship upgrades, just for small cosmetic stuff that won't alter gameplay.


Also, there will be mod support and maybe even an internal market-place for us to sell community mods (although this is just a preliminar idea).
And I would also recommend to check out their new and better video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_okozNpxTOE

-

Yeah, Sol Contingency may be better and we may like it more, but whether we like it or not, it won't have the Descent brand nor assets on it, so it won't be an official Descent title, period.

So there's no better oportunity to get an official Descent game than this one, don't let their KS campaign fail, I would really LOVE to see a new Descent game on the Steam store!! 8)
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Thu Mar 19, 2015 2:02 am

Pumo wrote:Yeah, Sol Contingency may be better and we may like it more, but whether we like it or not, it won't have the Descent brand nor assets on it, so it won't be an official Descent title, period.

I am not happy about that part of your post.

Who cares about the brand or game assets? I care about the gameplay. D:U ships won't look like a Pyro (except for the KS pledger reward ship), so what's the deal about SolC having a different ship design? SolC's weapons will just be renamed and probably have their projectile / fx changed.

For all it's worth, SolC is a true Descent style game.

So far, the SolC team also has done all their work for free. It is a project made by fans for fans. I think the Descent community owes them something.

What I think can be expected (after I have seen Star Citizen) is what Descendent Studios announced: That they will crank graphics quality up a notch compared to SolC. But then SolC might port to UE4, and I think that might even the playing field in that regard again (and if they don't, SolC will still play like Descent, it will be available earlier, and it may even come for free - and if not, I will buy it: The guys deserve that).
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Thu Mar 19, 2015 5:39 am

As I said on FB:

Pumo @ FB wrote:Yeah, it's true that SolC may have better gameplay in the end, but still, as I enjoy everything Descent related as a fan (even Descent 3 that is not as good) I'm excited to see a new Descent title on the making (I may be giving more importance to the brand than I should?).

Indeed it would have been better to have the original SolC with the pyro and that stuff on our hands (including the D1 inspired levels, robots and stuff), but unfortunately that sank in a deep hole in the past (due to Interplay's fault).

So, looking at the future, even if I don't fully like it, nowadays D:U is the only oportunity to get an official Descent game, although it may not share all the great gameplay elements that SolC will have and that will make it more worthy of the Descent title even if it doesn't has it.
So I still think that SolC deserves our full support with no doubt!

But, even if we get another Descent 3 (I mean, a Descent game not as good as D1/2) with D:U, I will be happy. I'm a bit on the league of Tylo/Obi-Wan, I'm just a hard-core Descentr that wants to see a new game on the series.

BTW, I'm pretty sure that at the end I will be buying both.


So it's a win/win situation! :mrgreen:
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Thu Mar 19, 2015 4:36 pm

Find a very interesting article at Ars Technica about Descent:Underground here, that may explain why Interplay preferred Descendent Studios over the SolC team and game. I have that that line of argumentation is suited to reconciling me with how things went with SolC.

It was this snippet from the article which I found particularly interesting:

Peterson originally set out to make a 6-DoF shooter in the style of Descent without actually being a branded Descent game. "We were making a game that was called 'Ships That Fight Underground,' or STFU—it was a working title!—and we got approached by one of our fans that was a shareholder at Interplay and said, 'Would you guys like to do Descent?'" This led to a series of meetings with Herve Caen, CEO of Interplay, which then resulted in an official licensing agreement to use the name and be part of the franchise.
"He liked the pedigree we were bringing," said Peterson about the talk with Caen. "I think he had a few other people try to reboot it, but they weren’t doing it to the AAA level. When you’re going to reboot something you really need to take it to the next generation or else you’re just doing the same game, and that won’t really work."


This actually managed to reconcile me in regard of treatment of the SolC team and project by Interplay. It would have been very helpful if Interplay had been a bit more verbose about why they rejected SolC and gave the Descent IP to Descendent Studios in the end.

I fully agree with what Eric is saying about Descent needing an infusion of fresh and expanded mechanics and play styles, and I am really looking forward to what they will be coming up with. I had been looking forward to a new, modern, enhanced Descent for many, many years. Let's hope Descendent Studios will finally pull it off, and that it will be nothing short of great. I did throw a couple of bucks at them at Kickstarter to do my small part in helping them to succeed now. Don't disappoint us, guys. ;-)
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Sat Mar 21, 2015 9:38 pm

[removed - karx]
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby lambdatorus » Sun Mar 22, 2015 12:11 am

BTW ,it may be a little out of topic ,but now there is a dev team working on a descent brand,we should ask them adding DIRECT X 9 support to descent 3.That 's important,and because of new headset appearing on the market(OCULUS,HTC,etc....),that should enable descent 3 to turn on stereo.I say that because we won't have another chance to do this and this title is worth being revived in stereo.Had someone contacted them about this?
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Sun Mar 22, 2015 11:50 am

The last discussion I had participated in on the D:U forum was shut down after it had got derailed by Lothar, and if I can trust what the Descendent Studio's webmaster told me, the same people that had been bashing me all those years in the past on the DBB seem to still live out their thirst for vengeance (for my building D2X-XL the way I, and not they, wanted it) and their unfiltered hatred against me on the D:U forums. I will not expose myself to that again in a new place. My interest in Descent is a nostalgic one at best anyway, so I will lean back and watch what will be coming of D:U. My interest has turned to other games in the past (World of Tanks), and I will rather spend my time and energy on Armored Warfare, the upcoming modern tank based arcade/sim MMO.

That's why I don't want any mention of the DBB here.

lambdatorus,

what makes you believe the D:U have any time or interest to sink effort into the old code from an old game? They are busy creating a new Descent game using the Unreal Engine. Forget D3.

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