Descent : Underground

All non Descent related stuff. Keep it civilized, this is not an NHB area.
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Yoshimitsu
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Sun Mar 22, 2015 4:51 pm

Damn Karx. Sorry that had to happen. Not knowing much of your history with those people besides a few references on here, I had gotten the impression that the folks on the D:U forums were a pretty friendly bunch. I even asked if anyone wanted to try D2X-XL multiplayer. Nobody has taken me up on it yet but none jumped down my throat for suggesting it either. Lotherbot even seemed perfectly fine with me preferring XL to Rebirth. I finally caved and downloaded rebirth so that I could find people to play with. I actually had my first ever online game with Obi-Wan Kenobi and Moh a few nights ago. I tell you though, after using D2X-XL for so long the old visuals of Rebirth hurt my eyes. That old pyro model looks weird and it's really easy to mistake it for a powerup.

Maybe I should have asked here first anyway but would you or anyone else be interested in doing some XL multiplayer?
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:03 pm

It's not like that would be the general tone on the D:U forums. Sorry if I gave that impression. It's just that I joined a discussion about essential game elements, and one of the contributors got a bit, let's say "too involved" and picked the wrong tone on two or three occasions, until I finally made it clear that he had gone to far as far as I was concerned. As a result, a Descendent Studios guy (Dunkelza) closed the thread. Dunkelza didn't say much, and certainly nothing that could be taken as an offense, but that webmaster just couldn't help himself but add a very uncalled for comment after Dunkelza's thread closure. I PM'd that guy about it and got a rather daft and brainless reply.

So I don't want to blame the D:U team in general. However, given how many of the people who had given me a hard time on dbb.net are on the D:U forums, it's only a matter of time when they will take the chance to attack me whenever I post something they don't agree with, I rather want to stay out of harms way. It's just not worth it.

D2X-XL multiplayer would always be cool, and my fixes to D2X-XL's netcode hadn't really been tested except by myself, so a public test would be a good thing. I had been told by some D2X-XL player that he couldn't connect to D2X-XL's game tracker, and while that always worked for me, it would be good to see whether that was just his or a general problem.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:08 pm

I think understand. It's just a pity there's so much bitterness against someone who has created such an amazing mod.

I'd love to try playing online. At this moment I'm trying to repair my joystick. In my game with Obi-Wan I discovered that the button I use for slide up sticks and makes me travel that way all the time. Once I get that done done I'll brush up on connecting with XL and maybe see if we can get a game going.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:29 pm

Well, the main reason for people having difficulty getting along with me is that I do not always fulfil their expectancies of being treated the way they would like me to. That has two reasons:

#1 I tend to just speak my mind, not in the intention to offend others, but simply to express what I consider facts. I do so even regarding personal matters. Now not everybody can stand being confronted directly with his own weaknesses, even if done in a constructive attitude. I am just too in the face for some people (particularly those with a very high opinion of themselves and their importance).

#2 The people at dbb.net had a very elitist and arrogant attitude towards people they considered less skilled and expert regarding Descent than themselves. Now I was a newcomer on that forum, I was German, and I had a different communication style than those people were used to. My adding to D2X-XL whatever I liked very much provoked some people there who considered themselves the ultimate authority regarding what should be added to a Descent port. Unfortunately they approached me in a manner that was by no means acceptable, and me being the person I am made it pretty clear that they had no say in my work (at least definitely not that way). Their reception of that message wasn't exactly cheerful, and the climate rapidly deteriorated for me after that, these people taking every chance to attack and insult me full on, putting my work down, allowing flame wars and name calling of the worst possible kind against me, but banning me for simply replying and setting some records straight ... pure hypocrisy and mobbing (Lothar was one of the worst hypocrites, and he still seems to be quite full of himself). I don't really want to remember that. In the end everything I said was wrong, and nothing I did could appease the mob chasing me. I only found peace after getting my own server and forum. The sad thing is that some of the pathetic lowlifes from that time kept bashing D2X-XL ever since, which is even more sad as I did my best to cater to every faction - purists, casuals and singleplayer fans alike. So whenever there was a flame about D2X-XL, the real intent was (and is) to attack me - to the very day.

Now I haven't been an active Descent player for years, D2X-XL development has more or less ceased, and I have long moved on to different things and games. If you look at Lothar and the people he represents, you will notice how much they are still living in the past and in the very limited confines of their Descent habitat, and do not seem to have many other things to invest their enthusiasm and life time for.

As I said, Descent is no priority for me anymore, so I will just move out of the way, and move on.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Sun Mar 22, 2015 5:51 pm

I also tend to be a "Say What I Think" kind of person so I can sympathize. I do at least make a serious effort to admit when I'm wrong and I imagine you do the same so in the unlikely event that we ever get into a serious argument, I doubt it would ever get nasty. All I can say is that I love your work and when I get my finances sorted out, I think D2X-XL is the first Descent project that will get my support in thanks for all the years of fun I have gotten from it.

I just got my Joystick fixed! It had a slight design flaw that caused the top middle button to wedge against the hat assembly. All I had to do was shave off a bit of plastic and problem solved. I'm updating my D2X-XL version and I need to make sure everything is still where it needs to be and functioning properly. I haven't played for a while and I was still on version 1.16.19. I'll let you know when I've got it up and running. Incidentally, what time is it for you? It's about 2:00pm where I am.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Sun Mar 22, 2015 6:31 pm

Right now, it is around 7:30 am for me.

I have just re-launched the D2X-XL game tracker (my server seems to be getting restarted periodically w/o me being noticed about it) and have setup my DSL router (it had reset itself to factory defaults without me telling it to recently ... weird).
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Alter-Fox » Sun Mar 22, 2015 7:16 pm

Yeah... sometimes the adults are the people who need to grow up.
I know what it's like when people think they can walk all over you. I think those of us who can stand up and say no even when there are consequences are the lucky ones. Because those who can't will always have their lives run by someone else.
We live in a universe... It's distracting
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Sun Mar 22, 2015 8:10 pm

Back again. I've got D2X-XL running well. I looked at the multiplayer games menu and saw a tracker. Perhaps when you get a chance we might try a game (and you as well Alter-Fox if you like). It doesn't have to be now. I'm awake until 2:00-3:00am EST on a regular basis just let me know when is good.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:30 pm

Heck, I think I just have to support D:U on KS. Drakona's enthusiasm is so damn contagious!
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:27 pm

lol, such a polemical KS campaign, isn't it? :lolol:
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:28 pm

The thread in question on the DU forums has been unlocked. Whoever is interested, can see for himself whether locking the thread and reprimanding me for what I said was in place. I think it was totally out of place, and you can see clearly who was responsible for derailing it. Hint: Not me.

Pumo,

I don't quite understand you.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Mon Mar 23, 2015 4:48 pm

I mean that everything regarding the D:U Kickstarter campaign has been full of polemics, discussions, arguing, misunderstandings and indecisiveness (from us the users) since the very start. :P
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:16 pm

People really need to sort out where DU is heading for. It seems to be getting clearer and clearer that it is meant to be true to Descent - with new game elements and mechanics, yes, but at least really close to the original flight model. I was hoping for such a game, and one that would expand on the original formula in a good way for many years, until my interest in Descent had waned, but this is getting me interested again, even though I have become a rather jaded gamer.

I will ad a splash screen to D2X-XL advertising the KS campaign and explaining about DU. All I need is a really cool new feature for D2X-XL that would make a lot of people download the new version. :mrgreen:

Could also be a mandatory new feature for your upcoming mission that would make players update D2X-XL to allow them to play your mission. This however means your mission would need to be finished real soon ... ;)
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Mon Mar 23, 2015 5:20 pm

For me, as long as they preserve the main ship mechanics in a way that won't feel sluggish and boring like on Retrovirus and Miner Wars (and even a bit Forsaken), I'm in.

I don't have a problem if it adds new gameplay elements like mining, ship upgrades, etc.
In fact, I do welcome changes to make it feel like a newer game.

You know, taking aside ship's movement, I'm not as purist as other Descent players, that's why I use D2X-XL (much more than Rebirth & Retro) in the first place. ;)
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:09 pm

I just tossed my opinions up on that discussion. There actually seems to be some good stuff on that topic.


To be honest Karx I think it started getting personal in you first post.
karx11erx wrote:However, you need to understand that her position is the one of a player who is totally on the side of competitive (1v1) multiplayer.

On the other hand I don't think that remark was offensive in the least and the rest of your post showed that you have plenty of respect for Drakona's skill and experience even if you don't share all of her opinions.

I DO think that you misunderstood Lotharbot's remark about "full teacher mode." I could be wrong but from the context I believe he meant to "teach" you about Drakona's experience playing singleplayer as well as multiplayer NOT that he teaching you about why singleplayer might contribute to building better skill. Call me an optimist but I don't think he meant to patronize you with that remark.

For the rest of it, the discussion definitely got a bit heated but I don't think it ever really strayed to far off topic, so I think the webmaster's reaction might have been a bit to strong. I will say though, it did seem to calm things down which I'm sure was the point.

I don't know where Lothar and Drakona are from (what their native language is). I obviously also don't know the details of your history together, but from the outside it looks like a misunderstanding between people who use English slightly differently. (Just how I see it)


Back to topic.

I actually agree with most of what you Karx and you Pumo say about Descent: Underground. I welcome some new ideas so long as the flight itself feels good. Also the more I see and hear from the developers the happier I get. The flythrough video of their level in progress looks great and I can't wait to see more.

Also holding out hope for Sol Contingency.

As far as multiplayer D2X-XL, I think I'll make a new thread in the Multiplayer Date Planner section (in a little while that is).
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