Descent : Underground

All non Descent related stuff. Keep it civilized, this is not an NHB area.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Mon Mar 23, 2015 10:55 pm

Yoshi,

what is personal about that? It's just the truth! It's a fact, period, and it's what she has been expressing herself all the way! I cannot understand how anybody could interpret that as offensive, and that is what is basically meant when saying "personal".

Sorry, but if somebody states he is going into teacher mode when talking to me, then I do very much feel patronized. I am 53 year old software manager in the automotive industry, nobody is playing my teacher.

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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Mon Mar 23, 2015 11:23 pm

karx11erx wrote:I cannot understand how anybody could interpret that as offensive, and that is what is basically meant when saying "personal".


That's interesting to hear. Just to be clear You have not offended me and I don't mean to offend you either, but for me as another USA native "personal" and "offensive" are very different, at least in the context I was using it.

When I say your comment was personal all I mean is that at that point you were beginning to talk about Drakona rather than talking about Descent. I do agree that what you said wasn't in any way negative and should not have been offensive but given that there is some history between you, I'm not surprised that Lothar got a bit defensive.

Maybe I'm butting in where I have no business. If so I apologize :hug: . I'm just saying what I think.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:24 am

Well, in German getting personal means getting ad hominem (I had to look that term up, it's totally uncommon here).

Well, in your sense I was getting personal as I was talking about her motives, but I cannot see where that would have been out of place. Drakona has her agenda - everybody has. It's just that in a project with many different people with different motivations, all motives must be put on the table so that everybody knows what he's up to, and so that differences can be sorted out and a consensus can be reached.

You can say what you think. As far as I am concerned, we are just talking and exchanging opinions.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Tue Mar 24, 2015 2:55 am

karx11erx wrote:You can say what you think. As far as I am concerned, we are just talking and exchanging opinions.


I'm glad you feel that way.

I guess personal could be used with a lot different connotations. English is such an unclear language with lots of room for interpretation (and misinterpretation). I guess in this case Lothar chose to interpret your remarks as an attack on his wife... Oh well it seems like it's over and done at this point anyway. I will admit though that after a re-read of some of that discussion, I don't care for the way that Lothar and Drakona presume to speak for the hardcore fans. I consider myself a hardcore fan and I absolutely disagree with some of their opinions just as I'm sure I disagree with some of yours. Everyone has their own views and can speak only for themselves. I know you know this. Maybe they do not.

What you just said about everyone having their own agenda is certainly true. I know I do. Actually I think that this could stand to be said more often so long as we make sure to include ourselves in the statement.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Sirius » Wed Mar 25, 2015 6:51 am

They share a lot of the same opinions as (especially) 1v1ers and (to a lesser extent) general multi-player/single-player people. I don't think they're intentionally trying to say "everyone is like us", but not a lot has been done to avoid such a misconception.

I also share many of the same views - at least in multi-player-land. I wouldn't describe DKH's levels as "beautiful" though. They play well, but I reserve that word for things with actual visual appeal. :mrgreen: But that's not to knock him, that is his forte and I think I recall that heavy architecture wasn't somewhere he was really prepared to go. (He did use DLE though. :))
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Yoshimitsu » Wed Mar 25, 2015 7:58 am

That's all totally fair Sirius. And to be honest I haven't yet made a real effort to explore all of DKH's maps. I wouldn't be even slightly surprised to find that the majority of them play fantastically well. :wink:
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby homeyduh » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:30 am

Woah! I just noticed you got banned from the DU forums? Whatever the hell for? You were openly supporting them!
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Fri Apr 03, 2015 2:39 am

I'm not sure if he got banned as it doesn't has a 'banned' title on his profile (although I don't know how DS forums works exactly).
I see a name change and removal of posts, but those could be made by Diedel himself if he didn't feel comfortable on there for some reason.

Or yes, he might be banned (?).

I suppose there was some arguing at the chat or something?

EDIT: it seems I was more or less right according to a post from a moderator @ DS forums. I almost knew what it might happened, I should have been a detective, lol.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Fri Apr 03, 2015 11:14 am

I didn't want to shout this from the house tops, since it's actually not of much interest, but as you had to bring it up (instead of PM'ing me about it first), here's my version.

This is actually a minor issue that has boiled up due to a mod not yet having fully understood the challenges that he has to handle, and my harsh reaction. The DS people don't know or hate me (nor do I hate them), and this issue certainly has no priority for them.

Yes, I got temporarily banned (it seems I can login and I could post if I would confirm the official warning issued to me, which I do not currently feel inclined to do) after a discussion about a player from the toxic, pardon, Rebirth community flaming and in the end insulting me openly in the chat, and only getting a warning for it. Now I believe that calling people "asshole" in a public chat at least warrants an immediate kick, since everybody is very well aware of such a thing being far beyond acceptable behavior. When I kept discussing the issue with the mod in charge (elfindreams), I got kicked (just for expressing my opinion about the issue), and in the end temporarily banned for my admittedly rather infuriated reaction to that.

It's funny, isn't it? Some troll (psion in this case) from the Rebirth community who doesn't even really know me appears, flames and insults me, and all he gets is a gentle warning clap on the hand. I end up getting banned. Handling such issues the way it got handled sets a standard for the Descendent Studios chat and forums, and I don't want to be around there with such standards applied. It's really a two class justice being done there, and I will not expose myself to that, whatever I do and say there being looked at more critically than at what people like psion do and say (people who do not have any merits whatsoever in the Descent community, but who are just around, socialize and believe the are the salt of the earth for no real reason). After all these years, I am still a red cloth for such people, and they will seek opportunities to get at me whenever we are at the same place. Actually that is far more telling about them than about me, but fortunately there is no real need for me to expose myself to lowlifes like that.

Hence I will not support Descendent Studios in any way anymore, nor I will I participate in their chat or forums or use any of their internet infrastructure. I have also cancelled my KS pledge to DS. I am not planning to go against them in any way, but I am not going to be a part of DU in any way either.

With that context, I have to say that my interest in DU was fueled out of nostalgic sentiments rather than actual interest in a new Descent game. I haven't been playing Descent for years. The real fun for me was to do some coding in D2X-XL and DLE and to support people who are using either or both of them. Gaming wise, I have long proceeded to new pastures. So in the end, I may actually win something, and that is more time and money for other things, and I've got my peace back. Let's say that in the end it has turned out that DU is not really my cup of tea, and certainly not worth having to constantly fear out of the blue attacks from some scum with no life and a bad character.

This is just for your information. I don't want to endlessly stir this up though. I have made my decision, and I am actually happy with it. I never quite felt comfortable with DU and at DS's internet place. Nevertheless I had been willing to support them, but I don't really have to, so what.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby homeyduh » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:43 pm

If sorry about bringing it to the public. I should have asked you directly instead of putting it out there like that. Idk why people seem to flame D2XXL so much. I really like it! Sure my laptop can't run it at Max settings, but it's really cool! I love ALL the features you add to it and I think they should be implemented into every Descent game.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Fri Apr 03, 2015 3:58 pm

Yeah, D2X-XL is the best port, but there are personal issues from some users since the old DBB days that were carried to the Rebirth community, unfortunately.

@Diedel
Your reasons are legitimate, specially as D:U will be Multiplayer mainly, so the chances to have an encounter with any old DBBer are pretty high.
So do it as you feel is best and everything will be cool. You have your loyal D2X-XL userbase so no worries. :cheers:

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Now, for the interested, I will keep updated this D:U topic whenever there are important news or something, as there may be some Descent fans interested on D:U on here (like me), if you're OK with that, of course.
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Fri Apr 03, 2015 6:08 pm

I will not restrict people regarding D:U. The only thing I will enforce here is mutual respect. :)
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Pumo » Sat Apr 04, 2015 6:04 am

That seems pretty fair to me. :thumb:
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby Sirius » Sun Apr 05, 2015 7:16 am

Strange. If it's the same guy I'm thinking of, psion is the developer of Geocore... I would think he has more in common than not. Ah well. The internet doesn't always make sense :)
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Re: Descent : Underground

Postby karx11erx » Mon Apr 06, 2015 1:28 am

Yeah ... I dimly remember him ... he took over Geocore after the project's founder had left, correct? No idea why he was so hostile.

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