Shield + Armor? Thought about it?

All other topics around Descent and D2X-XL

Moderators: Frustikus, simX, Aus-RED-5

Thraka
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:07 pm

Shield + Armor? Thought about it?

Postby Thraka » Mon May 11, 2009 6:06 pm

I love to think about game designs, which is why I'm posting this thread.

Has anyone ever thought about what Descent would be like if the ships themselves modeled armor? Currently, the ships all have a shield, and when that shield runs out, the ship explodes. Most FPS that deal with people have a life counter on that person. Usually the player can get armor which does one of two things (normally):

1) Extends the life based on the armor. Damage taken now hits armor, and does nothing to the health of the entity
2) Reduces the impact on the health of the entity when hurt. Armor gets worn down as this happens.


Some ideas I have around a Descent 2++ type of game that modeled something close to this:


1) Ship has armor. Shield guards the armor.
- If shield runs out, and u get hit, your armor becomes damaged.
- Once armor is gone, any hit can destroy you.
- You cannot heal armor. This is only done between levels (or when you reenter the level after death in multiplayer)
- Perhaps some weapons can be designed to penitrate shield and hurt armor.
- Perhaps nanobots can be picked up that can heal armor.

2) Ship has no armor, current shield system stays, but is extended
- You can pickup a shield boost item, which would increase max, stable shield.
- When you fill the shield up past the stable max (default 100), would slowly count down to max.
User avatar
Yokelassence
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:54 am
Location: That country full of sheep.

Postby Yokelassence » Mon May 11, 2009 11:02 pm

True, the shield already is Armour in terms of game mechanics. So compared to the way other games handle shields it does seem a bit odd the way shields are treated. Although changing the shield mechanic may call for a huge review of balance.

What you describe reminds me of the relationship between shields and Armour in Freelancer where the the purpose of shielding was not so much to act as an extra layer of Armour but rather served to protect the Armour from being broken off your ship (which could cost you expensive equipment). Imagine applying that to Descent and have players blow off each others wings...

Speaking of game designs regarding shields:
Does it bother anyone that robots render a huge round shield about them, yet your weapons don't interact with this shield whatsoever unless you have simple hit detection enabled?
-Core i5 4690 3.5Ghz--GTX 1070 8GB--16GB DDR3 800--Z97 Extreme4--512GB SSD/2TB HDD--Zalman Z11 case-

Old PC that no longer turns on. May it R.I.P:
-Core 2 Duo E8500 3.2Ghz--HD4850 512MB--4GB DDR2-800--Gigabyte EP45-DS3L--640GB Storage--Antec 300 Case-
User avatar
pokeman7452
Posts: 589
Joined: Wed Oct 24, 2007 2:33 pm
Location: Northern VA, USA

Postby pokeman7452 » Mon May 11, 2009 11:15 pm

Yes, that is somewhat annoying, I don't like the robots having shields...
Actually, you do have hull in D2. A flare destroys it though. (you can have 0 shield)
Laptop: (outdated)——————————————————————————————Desktop:
ASUS G72GXBBCDDDHLMPPPRTVWcdeefghimnoorruyz2 5 6 8000+-./()Newegged
Core 2 Duo (2.5Ghz)ABBDDGHLMPPPRSSTUVWXcdefgimnry6 78000+-/i5 3570K (4.0-4.7ghz)
6GB DDR2ABCDGHLMPPPSSTUVWXcdeefghimnoorruyz2 5 7 8000+-./()16GB DDR3
Geforce GTX 260MABBCDDDHLPPPRSSUVWdghimnoruyz2 5 7800+-./()GTX650Ti
80GB + 500GB HDDACDLMPPPRSSTUVWXcdeefghimnoorruyz2 267-./()2X500GB in RAID0 + 1TB
DL DVD+-RWABBCGGHMPPPSSTUXcdeefghimnoorruyz2 2 5 678000./()52X CD-R | HD DVD/Blu-Ray, DL DVD+-RW + LS
Win 7 Home Pre/XP ProABBCDDDGGLMRSSTUVcdfghuyz22568000+-.()Win 7 Pro/XP Pro
Thraka
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:07 pm

Postby Thraka » Tue May 12, 2009 12:22 am

Yeah I thought about that too.. How the bots have shields, when they should be armor only really. Maybe specialty bots would have shields like the ones that work in the lava sections, or the bosses.
Thraka
Posts: 50
Joined: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:07 pm

Postby Thraka » Tue May 12, 2009 12:27 am

Yokelassence wrote:True, the shield already is Armour in terms of game mechanics. So compared to the way other games handle shields it does seem a bit odd the way shields are treated. Although changing the shield mechanic may call for a huge review of balance.


Yes, totally would need balancing. I don't know the capabilities of mods, but if a mod could supply source code (compiled DLL) that changed mechanics. It's one way to get it accomplished. Or in mods, if amounts can be configured (shield max etc) then the engine just has to support rendering armor status (0-X%) and a mod could control the values for the different bots.

I can easily see the d2X engine as the platform for a descent 2.5. ;)
Sirius
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Postby Sirius » Tue May 12, 2009 4:26 am

The capabilities of mods depend on the game engine. You basically have to add in hooks to everything that might need changing.
User avatar
Yokelassence
Posts: 974
Joined: Sun Apr 06, 2008 1:54 am
Location: That country full of sheep.

Postby Yokelassence » Tue May 12, 2009 4:40 am

Thraka wrote:Yeah I thought about that too.. How the bots have shields, when they should be armor only really. Maybe specialty bots would have shields like the ones that work in the lava sections, or the bosses.


Just a quick thought: Why not set robot shields so that it is enabled with simple hit detection (where the shield applies logic to the spherical hitbox) but disabled with advanced hit detection (so you can clearly see you are hitting the robot). That would make perfect sense.

Seeing the shield render when a boss robot is hit with something it is immune against would look cool too, but could be effort.

back on topic: A mod would still be the best way to go for this. How hard might it be to override the shield settings?

You could basically just split the 200 shield into 50 armour and 150 shield just for starters.
-Core i5 4690 3.5Ghz--GTX 1070 8GB--16GB DDR3 800--Z97 Extreme4--512GB SSD/2TB HDD--Zalman Z11 case-

Old PC that no longer turns on. May it R.I.P:
-Core 2 Duo E8500 3.2Ghz--HD4850 512MB--4GB DDR2-800--Gigabyte EP45-DS3L--640GB Storage--Antec 300 Case-
Sirius
Posts: 1990
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Postby Sirius » Tue May 12, 2009 8:44 am

If you can program C++ and learn the D2X-XL codebase reasonably fast, shouldn't be too hard on a wild guess.

Return to “General Discussions”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests