few bugs and questions.

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virtue
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few bugs and questions.

Postby virtue » Tue Nov 30, 2010 1:42 am

Hi, Ive been playing descent since it came out and I love the project you're doing so far. Among other things I recently upgraded to the latest version (I had V1.13) and I noticed a lot of features were removed? (there were more options in the menu to tweak) how come?

Also, replaying Descent 1, the level 7 Boss...kills himself? I'm not entirely sure what happens but when facing him one minute he's acting normal, I turn a corner or go into the central pillar and he's in his death throes, what gives? does his own smart missiles kill him?
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Postby Alter-Fox » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:09 am

Some menu options were removed to make the menus less confusing. Technically all the features are still there they've just been combined into "large" menu options (like most games do ;) ). I think this was done because a lot of people had been complaining about "bugs" or "low framerates" when what had actually happened was they changed some menu options that were either experimental or meant to remain in their default state.

As for the D1 level 7 boss... I haven't seen this bug personally but I know someone else (Techpro) has encountered it in a custom mission (Descent Vignettes). You should probably post a bug report on the Sourceforge tracker.
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Postby Sirius » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:52 am

The Vignettes issue occurred because the boss was in an area not much bigger than it was... was also the other boss (level 27). The D1 level 7 boss room definitely doesn't suffer from that issue.
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Postby Yokelassence » Tue Nov 30, 2010 3:23 am

There was a demand for a simpler menu with less controls and that was implemented around 1.14.00 I think. I protested it and so did a few others but apparently there were many more anonymous sources supporting the idea. I remember Simx being a large advocate for a simpler menu also. Majority vote won.

If the D1 Level 7 Boss suicided, just try replaying that area. It might not happen twice.

What happens is that the robots self-destruct if they get jammed in a segment, this is supposed to be some kind of failsafe but I don't know what for. It can happen to any large sized robot that moves into, teleports or starts in segments it cannot fit into.

I have seen robots explode just by passing through a segment that has a wide entrance that it can fit through but a narrow exit that it can't. There are a few segments like that in the D1 L7 Boss chamber and I bet when you saw that boss suicide, he was trying to get into one of those.
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Postby karx11erx » Tue Nov 30, 2010 10:23 am

Please see my worklog (accessible via my web site's home page) for D2X-XL design and development "philosophy" and details.
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Postby Alter-Fox » Tue Nov 30, 2010 2:18 pm

Yokelassence wrote:What happens is that the robots self-destruct if they get jammed in a segment, this is supposed to be some kind of failsafe but I don't know what for. It can happen to any large sized robot that moves into, teleports or starts in segments it cannot fit into.

I have seen robots explode just by passing through a segment that has a wide entrance that it can fit through but a narrow exit that it can't. There are a few segments like that in the D1 L7 Boss chamber and I bet when you saw that boss suicide, he was trying to get into one of those.


I've seen that happen with Sidearms in D2 level 7, in all Descent versions.
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Postby virtue » Tue Nov 30, 2010 5:08 pm

Heres a savegame of jsut before the boss. When playing, try to leave him alone. or coax him to fire missiles then dodge into the central pillar.

https://sourceforge.net/tracker/download.php?group_id=155890&atid=797586&file_id=394854&aid=3122993
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Postby TechPro » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:09 am

Just for giggles, I loaded up that level and played up to the Boss. I took my usual tactic which is to cloak and then run around picking off the drillers and red hulks ... then I go for the Boss. By then, the Boss has already tried a few shots at me as I'm popping in and out of his/her view (do Descent Bosses have a gender?). I come flying by, pummeling and I cruise past and run around the pillar, doing the same again as I fly past wherever the Boss has shown up at me. After a bit of this, the Boss dies at right about the normal amount of effort for the difficulty I'm running at.

Nope, the D1 L7 Boss didn't suicide. Of course, I only tried it once.

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Postby pokeman7452 » Wed Dec 01, 2010 6:57 am

TechPro wrote:(do Descent Bosses have a gender?)
This is English, which means you don't have to give it a gender (thank god).
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Postby TechPro » Wed Dec 01, 2010 7:32 am

pokeman7452 wrote:
TechPro wrote:(do Descent Bosses have a gender?)
This is English, which means you don't have to give it a gender (thank god).

That just takes all the fun out of it. :lol:

Upgraded to 1.15.110, reloaded my saved spot just before going into the Red room, cloaked and ran in taking out the drillers and red hulks as usual. Saw the Boss and fired one (just one) laser blast (quads, level 4) at the Boss and ducked around the center column taking out drillers and red hulks. Just after the last red hulk blew (theres what ... 5 or 6 of them in there?) the Boss blew up. I had fired only one volley at the Boss, I wasn't even on the same side of the room as it when it blew.

Re-loaded and tried it again. This time the Boss behaved normally, and when I played around (trying to bait it) and sat in one place, it materialized next to me and instantly disintegrated me.

So... I've had the Boss die prematurely once out of three attempts to get that to happen. In the Vignettes level set, in that one level you can (or at least I could) get the Boss to die prematurely most of the time.

Hmm... What can we call this? PBD? (Premature Boss Death) or SDS? (Suicidal Boss Syndrome) or perhaps ED? (Early Death) Gotta have a funny moniker for this. :wink:
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Postby Pumo » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:04 am

I think SDS is definitely the best! :lol:
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Postby Sirius » Wed Dec 01, 2010 8:22 am

Or sudden boss death syndrome... which is probably less funny if you know someone whose family has been affected by the human variant, though unfortunately most things are that way.
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Postby Yokelassence » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:23 am

I have been calling it Spontanous Robot Combustion.
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Postby virtue » Wed Dec 01, 2010 4:51 pm

can we keep on topic please? Well, at least Techpro experienced it. As I said wait in the pillars and he will kill himself, I just played it again now and it took about 10 seconds for him to die!
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Postby karx11erx » Wed Dec 01, 2010 10:06 pm

This only happens in Descent 1 levels, and what is going on here is the following: When a boss doesn't see the player, it teleports around. If this makes it end up in a segment where it hits a wall, the game tries to move it away from the wall along the direction to a neighbouring segment. Now the D1 AI code erroneously didn't chose a neighbouring segment as destination, but the original segment and ended up thinking it couldn't stop the boss from colliding with a wall, and killed it. I must have somehow messed this up when adapting the D1 source code to D2X-XL.

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