Development Blah: Comments

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Fri May 11, 2012 8:19 am

I thought you're getting the creeps when only just firing up the level editor? ;)
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Ben K » Fri May 11, 2012 10:19 am

Almost. I managed about 70 segments.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby blarget# » Sun May 13, 2012 12:30 am

Diedel, i believe your latest update has made ALOT of mappers happy. People will use your editor more now. I honestly appreciate you doing this.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Sun May 13, 2012 2:11 am

By the universes!!!

:omg: :omg: :omg:

Diedel, wow, this is an unexpected turn of events. Now not only more people will be using DLE, but as open source DLE is now be blunt-exposed to a sea of feedback on source level. I for instance will start studying it, only to propose improvements. This... I still remember our first encounter which was on these two issues precisely... A turn of events I only regret. Know that these changes (especially the open source status) are greatly appreciated, and I for once will make it count in favor of the editor AND the XL project in general. When I am through with some serious real life obligations, DLE will just as well as Rebirth have my full attention. I cannot work everywhere at once, so I'll leave XL testing and coding to the experts. : P

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Mon May 14, 2012 12:44 am

Yes that is something awesome you gone done and did there Karx. Kudos, I definitely understand how hard it is to actually make up your mind and do this.

On an earlier topic, I just realized how much I'm going to want to use the first-person view even though I'm used to building without it. It is so hard for me to judge how big an area I've built will actually be in the game -- which usually results in me putting robots in terrible places because I misjudge the amount of space the player will have to move around in; first-person view will solve that completely.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Mon May 14, 2012 12:51 am

Alter-Fox wrote:Yes that is something awesome you gone done and did there Karx. Kudos, I definitely understand how hard it is to actually make up your mind and do this.

Not a difficult decision after SDLDevil offering relieved segment count limits anyway. ;) Plus, I don't really care that much anymore.

Alter-Fox wrote:On an earlier topic, I just realized how much I'm going to want to use the first-person view even though I'm used to building without it. It is so hard for me to judge how big an area I've built will actually be in the game -- which usually results in me putting robots in terrible places because I misjudge the amount of space the player will have to move around in; first-person view will solve that completely.

You could also call D2X-XL right from DLE-XP: It will load the level and put you right in it w/o further ado.

Hawkins,

I am not expecting you to do XL testing - I just wish you'd build XL levels instead of standard ones. I have put so many great things in XL, and so few people use it. It's a shame. :( If more level builders would start to build more quality XL levels, more people would be attracted to these levels, and the level authors would have their audience. Given the recent optimizations of XL there would also hardly be anybody who'd not have the hardware to run it. Even the "I prefer the old style" look argument is none, as you can turn off all advanced rendering stuff, physics etc. in XL with a few mouse clicks and still have the huge levels. So building XL levels would actually cater more to the Descent community than sticking with standard levels. As it is now a good part of the level authors is actually excluding the XL fans in a way as these won't get the features in new levels they'd love to see there. Going for XL levels would create a win/win situation for both parties. Let those who do not want to use XL for personal reasons exclude themselves instead of allowing them to control where an entire gaming community is heading for.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Mon May 14, 2012 3:50 am

karx11erx wrote:You could also call D2X-XL right from DLE-XP: It will load the level and put you right in it w/o further ado.


Yeah, but this way it doesn't compute lightmaps every time ;). (Though to be fair lightmap computation has really sped up recently).

karx11erx wrote:Even the "I prefer the old style" look argument is none...


I honestly don't think that's how the minds of the purest purists work. It's not so much about them being able to play by the rules they want to, it's more of wanting everyone to have to play by those rules (aka their rules), or not to play at all. If you think about it you can see how this would be adaptive :P.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Mon May 14, 2012 7:47 am

The new basic lighting calculation is good enough that you can enable it for viewing a level in the making. You could create a specific Descent pilot profile for the purpose and use that when calling D2X-XL from DLE-XP (where you can specify the pilot to use for D2X-XL).
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Mon May 14, 2012 12:14 pm

@karx: Well, now that DLE's opensource I will dig into the curve generator as promised... And LPC-Atlas is going to be an XL level yes. Still is. : P
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Mon May 14, 2012 12:21 pm

karx11erx wrote:The new basic lighting calculation is good enough that you can enable it for viewing a level in the making. You could create a specific Descent pilot profile for the purpose and use that when calling D2X-XL from DLE-XP (where you can specify the pilot to use for D2X-XL).


That is a fair point. Except I still don't have to now that there is a first person view so nya nya. :P
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Mon May 14, 2012 12:27 pm

You won't see animated effects in the editor though ... :roll:

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Mon May 14, 2012 1:56 pm

Space is not animated. Spacetime is... /troll
(meaning that AF wants spatial volumetric awareness of the level afaiu)
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Mon May 14, 2012 2:12 pm

I think he wants as good an impression what the level will look like in the game (this includes effects) with as little effort as possible.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Mon May 14, 2012 6:50 pm

Nope I just want have a good idea of the size of areas so that (for example) I don't put a Fusion Hulk in a corridor so tiny that you have no room to dodge him (actually I always thought of the fusion hulks as female like the secondary lifters but that's not the point). Or oppositely, putting a lone Driller in a room so huge that it poses no challenge whatsoever.
Matching the space to what's inside it is always a challenge in Descent levels, if only because the size of the pyro ship in the editor really doesn't reflect the size of your viewpoint in the game.

I don't deny that checking occasionally to make sure that the effects look the way I want them to is useful though. It's hard to get a good mental image of what it will look like just from all those numbers you tweak (with the exception of rain and snow of course).
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Wed May 16, 2012 12:33 pm

So... this means I can now build levels on my note-taking computer at school when I'm supposed to be listening. :horror:
Good thing I have the presence of mind to only do it when I'm not supposed to be doing anything else.
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