Development Blah: Comments

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karx11erx
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:57 pm

I need negative values internally on a few occasions.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby darkflamewolf » Wed Feb 22, 2012 1:48 pm

The D2->D1 converter works pretty good, haven't tested the .109 version yet, but I will shortly. But I think converting levels from D2 to D1 takes a LOT more finesse than say, D1->D2 where all you need to do is convert, save and play. No editing needed. For special case levels, like level 3 of Apocalyptic Factor Sedurta, where its over 800 cubes and over 175 walls for D1 limitations plus a very non-linear layout in terms of keys. You have to be creative in editing it into a more logical and sensible Descent 1 level. It can't be a simple matter of converting and call it done, you'd never be able to complete the level in its current state! lol So yes, great converter, but you need a bit more manual editing going backwards than forwards, if you know what I mean. But I think the levels will be all the better for it in Descent 1.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Wed Feb 22, 2012 2:21 pm

The converter can only do so much for you. It can take some precautions not to remove vital information like exit triggers and reactors, but it cannot make design decisions in case a level has to be rebuilt to accomodate for the lower D1 item limits. I could add something like only remove the segments furthest away from the player start, but that wouldn't really be helpful.

So the converter will just tell you roughly what it did remove (like X segments, Y walls, Z triggers, N objecs), allowing you to go back and adapt the level before converting it.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby darkflamewolf » Wed Feb 22, 2012 8:05 pm

Yeah, you, as a designer, should be aware of the limitations prior to conversion. And adjust the level accordingly prior to the conversion to make it function better as a D1 level. Because let me tell you, there is nothing quite like the feel of Descent 1 gameplay. Descent 2 is awesome and all that, but Descent 1 just has 'that' feel you just can't emulate. :muscle: Anyway, thanks for this DLE-XP addition. Good stuff! I will most likely be your main tester for it all, so goodie for you. :hah:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby darkflamewolf » Thu Feb 23, 2012 9:59 pm

I just realized, I do not believe Descent 1 supports Descent 2 mine objects. It converts it over fine in DLE-XP as green objects, but not sure if Descent 1 will have a fit when playing the level with those still left in.
That and the level name in the Automap only displays as '' instead of its actual name as depicted in the mission file. Not sure if its a conversion issue or not. Just thought I'd mention it.
"Congrats! You've just destroyed the '' mine!" haha
Last edited by darkflamewolf on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Sapphire Wolf » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:28 pm

I realized that the D1 level matcens included d2 robots for odd reasons. But I'll post about it on Sourceforge

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:47 pm

Oh my, the matcens ... :roll:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:52 pm

@DFW: What DLE-XP says to be D1, doesn't necessarily mean it's D1. Especially after conversion. I used to make D2 levels with 8000 cubes that way with DLE.
:away:
So it's probably an omission, or several in the converter. Your level will probably crash, or replace the mines with some other object, dunno really. I see in total about 3 cases here. Like SW said, post a ticket on SF.net, for each of your two cases, separately!
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Pumo » Sat Feb 25, 2012 8:51 pm

Great, so the loud sounds behind doors bug is fixed! that's pretty cool! :D
I haven't tested the latest versions and the included bugfixes, but I hope to test it soon. :)
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 25, 2012 9:14 pm

Hawkins wrote:I used to make D2 levels with 8000 cubes that way with DLE.

Be assured that this is a thing of the past.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Wed Mar 07, 2012 6:42 pm

karx11erx wrote:Another, bigger enhancement I finished today is the ability to split a segment evenly in eight smaller sub-segments. This can be done for a bunch of segments at once; they just need to marked ahead of launching the operation. The newly created smaller segments will be properly joined with their environment as far as possible. The main purpose of this function is to allow for quick refining of coarsely built areas (like e.g. the outdoor area of the Volcano level from my mission Warp Shockwave). This way you can e.g. build a quick prototype or rough outline of a mission and refine it later on with little effort. In my case I will use the function to split the outdoor area's overly huge segments into more manageable chunks.

Everytime I used the subdivide segment in DLE, that particular feature always crossed my mind: being able to "increase the resolution" of the level being built. I always though it to be impractical due to the elaborate rejoining of sides/lines/vertices. But thinking how the new division will be done, without actually changing the outline of the initial cube, it is possible. Think you can parametrize this function to take division to 8, 27, 64 e.t.c. (defined my the longitudinal division factor 2, 3, 4 e.t.c.), based on user input? (the user will say "divide by 4" and the cube will be divided into 64 little cubies) Regardless, even with the basic divider of 2, this function must be checked on each call by the cube limit. You spawn 7 extra cubes with it so... Same goes for vertices. Although the way the limit is set for vertices now, the vertex limit cannot be broken so far the level is connected. But in any other case it can. (wicked disconnected levels make sense in XL where we have teleports) Routine stuff, you probably already know all that and more stuff in the way...
:away:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Wed Mar 07, 2012 7:18 pm

The subdivide sounds like it would be epic for making outdoor areas or caves.
Cannot wait to try this... and I have a level idea that needs it too :P.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Pumo » Wed Mar 07, 2012 8:47 pm

OMG! It indeed sounds like a monster feature! :muscle:
Can't wait to see how it works! :bounce:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Sapphire Wolf » Wed Mar 07, 2012 9:36 pm

I'm looking forward to this! 8)
It'll be less of a hassle and more exciting
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Wed Mar 07, 2012 10:37 pm

Yap, no more need to plan out every area ultra-carefully or you have to rebuild it from scratch when you realize it's not complex enough.
I can see so many uses for this.
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