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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:36 pm
by Sirius
If anyone actually makes meaningful use of this they deserve a medal :) Even crossing the five-digit barrier makes your level more than ten times bigger than what Descent 2 originally supported.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 9:47 pm
by Pumo
Oh, so it seems it's for real! :omg: :omg: :omg:

Basically, this makes level-making capabilites virtually infinite.
20,000 is a huge number, you could make with patience and with this new capacity levels almost as detailed as any modern-day engine game level.

In fact, I really doubt I could ever use that many cubes on my Levels (i'm still on the 6000~ barrier, maybe even less, on my latest works).

This sir, deserves my total respect for the best Descent port in the world! :thumb:

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 10:01 pm
by Sirius
Almost. You can get a lot of detail out of it but it's awkward and arduous to do so when you're working cube-by-cube, and I have also run into constructions I just couldn't make because you can't fit them into cubes. This would get possible, but still annoying, if you could use a lot of zero-width lines everywhere (for triangular faces etc); but the engine handles these very poorly for purposes of collision detection - last time I experimented with this I could fly right through some of the faces.

Otherwise, I'd seriously consider writing a converter from 3D model formats to D2X-XL levels. (Which reminds me, I have a certain other programming project I need to spend more time on now that I have a chance :))

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sat Mar 31, 2012 11:14 pm
by Alter-Fox
I wonder what will be the April Fool's joke this year.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:11 am
by Sykes
It's DEFINITELY real, check the code commits in the SVN. This is gonna be awesome :D I already have a 18,000 cube level planned out.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 12:47 am
by karx11erx
Computing lightmaps for such a level will take ages.

I just added this for the heck of it. Actually building any level with more than 4000 - 5000 segments is not a good idea (unless you have a computer like Obi-Wan).

I have to admit that when I saw Trent Hawkins replying to the post about the 9000 segment level in the DTF forums with the remark that he would turn back to DEVIL and Rebirth now, I increased the segment limit to not just 16.000, but 20.000 in a mood of "Eat this, Stillbirth!".

:mrgreen:

Due to my thorough Descent code overhaul, I could actually increase the segment limit to 65535 segments with very little and to the virtually arbitrary amount of about 2.1 billion with a little more effort for D2X-XL levels.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:05 am
by Hawkins
Ummm .... errrr, errrr ... knock knock ... is the microphone turned on?

Uh yeah, ok then ...

Ladies and Gentlemen, I am pleased to announce that after thorough and deep research DLE-XP and D2X-XL could be enhanced to support levels consisting of up to 20.000 (twenty thousand) segments!

Oh my F***ING galaxy!!!!!!!!! *tears* Well, you heard the man. Limits are made to be reached. Creatively!

EDIT: why does it have to be rounded? give it 32767 outright.
:away:

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 1:43 am
by Sykes
Because if it's rounded, it's easy to tell how close you are to filling up the cube limit while designing a map ;) So if you're at 8,000 cubes, you can go "Oh, I'm almost halfway to the limit!". If it were some obscure number like that, you'd have to think harder about how close you are to the limit ;)

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 5:16 am
by Red_5
I can't even begin to imagine how long a 20k segment level would take to load :mrgreen:

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sun Apr 01, 2012 8:50 am
by karx11erx
Once the required data has been precomputed, loading it wouldn't be such a big deal.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 2:18 pm
by Hawkins
About the 20.000 segment limit... Where do we stand in upscalling other limits with it as well, like fuel centres cubes, which are very popular, but can populate very detailed sections? Walls? Triggers, Matcens? Any of which needs upscaling? (I believe matcens don't but fuel centres should be something like 5000 for 20000 cubes for example) So, what's the take on this?

Regards,

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:48 pm
by Pumo
And let's not forget also the walls. It would be a nice thing to upscale the wall limit, as if you use more cubes, you're goin' to need more walls for adding grates and stuff in complex structures.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Mon Apr 02, 2012 5:58 pm
by karx11erx
The wall limit is 2047 already.

Edit:

Max triggers = 254, max. fuel centers = 500.

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 1:39 am
by Hawkins
karx11erx wrote:I'm fed up with D2X-XL coding to the extent of feeling a physical urge to throw up when thinking of it.
Why am I doing this to myself? Nothing better to do? Not necessarily.

You do it because you love what you do, and set the footing for future generations to evolve it. I fail to speak for the whole community, but it feels like you, and all involved working in this project (the port) as well as the ones living it (builders and players alike) have our dearest appreciation and eternal gratitude for what you do, even if not respect some times. I visualize someone coming to pick up the pieces you drop from exhaustion and finish them, so that you (and the future generations) may continue. Whenever you feel it cannot go on, someone will always be there to give a hand. At least I wish so, for this game is being written into game-history, if that term makes any sense at all...

So again, from all of us here (I hope):
:laola:
and good :hammer:
:away:

Re: Development Blah: Comments

Posted: Sat Apr 07, 2012 2:19 am
by Pumo
Hawkins wrote:...I fail to speak for the whole community, but it feels like you, and all involved working in this project (the port) as well as the ones living it (builders and players alike) have our dearest appreciation and eternal gratitude for what you do, even if not respect some times...


I specially agree with that specific part.
As by myself, I'm really grateful for all the work you Diedel made on XL, as it's still the best version of the best game I've every played. :)