Development Blah: Comments

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Alter-Fox
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Alter-Fox » Tue Feb 07, 2012 3:50 pm

Thanx :wink:

EDIT: Wow. Nice DLE-XP feature :thumb: . Now I can build my ... mission for all Descent versions (if I'm willing to make a total conversion to D3...)
The D2X-XL edition will still be the best one though. It's the only one that can have the voice acting, after all...
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby darkflamewolf » Wed Feb 08, 2012 2:53 am

There are still some kinks to work out it seems. Not all choices from D2 textures to D1 went smoothly. I remember back when Texfix actually worked... :chainsaw: That I literally had little left to do but add objects/walls/triggers. The textures pretty much took care of themselves. With DLE-XP, I have to replace just about every secondary texture and light along with replacing every wall since it gives me a crapton of illegal wall clip number errors. So shooting at any door right now simply crashes the level unless you delete it and replace it with something proper. Other than those small gripes, the function does work as advertised, but you still need to do a lot of footwork on your end where the conversion process should have done it for you. Just musings and observations.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Sirius » Wed Feb 08, 2012 5:29 am

Sounds more like bugs to me :) I think I know where those go :D
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Wed Feb 08, 2012 8:48 am

Wolfie: <voice as sweet as honey> "Oh Diedel, look, I've got this texfix program here which doesn't seem to work as it should. Since you are such a greeeeeaaaat programmer, could you help me with this?" <batting her eyes in play>
Me: "Errrrm ... errrrm ... yeah, but ... errrrm ... I don't know this program. How about you asking in the forum?"
Wolfie: "Btw, here's the program and a texture conversion list."
Me: "Uh oh, wait a minute ... I could build a conversion right into DLE-XP, how 'bout that?"
Wolfie: "Oh that would be wonderful, but of course that's entirely up to you." (Taking care of any personal sensitivities on my side?)
<Me slaves away on the conversion function, does some tests, seems to work, so publishes it>
Wolfie: <tries it on a big level> "Oh, what crap is this? It messes up the doors, giving me tons of extra work!"
...
Me: <just thinking silently by myself> "More work than fixing all segments, walls, triggers, and robots manually? Oh.Thank.You.Wolfie."

:no:
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darkflamewolf
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby darkflamewolf » Wed Feb 08, 2012 9:25 am

Don't think I'm not grateful, because I am. :jump:
Very nice play by play dramatization of that conversation though, very entertaining to read! :bounce:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Wed Feb 08, 2012 6:03 pm

One problem was that the texture conversion list is far from being complete (there are e.g. no door texture mappings). Another one was that I didn't take into account that D2 has more doors (and hence door animations) than D1. I have fixed these problems, and have also fixed a robot conversion bug in DLE-XP v1.8.96.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby darkflamewolf » Fri Feb 10, 2012 12:50 am

I shall test it later, since I am not currently at home. But I am so grateful to you. You are now my new drinking bu...hero! :drink: ha ha
Thanks a bunch. When I get back home, I'll be sure to test it some more and give you feed back, until then. :hello:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:07 pm

I am probably the only one who cares about the latest DLE-XP improvements, am I not? Maybe because I'm more or less the only one using effect objects (except maybe Pumo)? :P
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Fri Feb 17, 2012 9:54 pm

Regarding Effects and Other XL features, I have been entertaining them in LPC. However, the project is stalled due to other work I have these days, therefore you won't be hearing from LPC for a long time.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Fri Feb 17, 2012 10:22 pm

For a long time? Oops. :shock:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Fri Feb 17, 2012 11:45 pm

I think SF.net is giving hints as to who is working with DLE-XP these days...
:away:
I'm working on it (LPC), just 1 hour instead of 10 a day. And not every day. It's halfway done, and I can sent more teasers with textures, but I'd rather keep it as a surprise.

Back on-topic, DLE is becoming more and more awesome and stable. Keep up the good work.
:laola:

P.S.: Speaking of LPC... I had to make sacrifices to keep the level under 8000 cubes. Depending on the excess performance load, truth be told I could use some more cubes in the long run. Heh... long... :wink:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 18, 2012 1:08 am

Descent uses a signed short as vertex index (max. value = 32767). The problem is that a segment has 8 vertices. 8000 * 8 = 64.000. Since a level usually doesn't consist of unconnected segments, I have made a sound assumption of needing an average of 4 vertices per segment. 8000 * 4 = 32.000, which fits into the short value range just so. That's why D2X-XL doesn't support more than 8000 segments: It would require too massive changes and cause a lot of incompatibilities. I could give you another 191 segments, but I guess that wouldn't cut it. ;)
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Hawkins » Sat Feb 18, 2012 3:05 am

Heh! That's funny, I was expecting 32767 actually. I knew about the signed short index for segments. I simply had overlooked vertex index...
:wallbash:
In that sense yeah, a lot would need to change, as these arrays (esp. segments) are very fundamental to the game; used up everywhere... Well, creativity lies in building with what you 've got. We have grown to tame the 900 limit all these years, so we can and do with this. Funny how, when building with polygon detail in XL,* it feels like building back with 900 cubes. Gained room, but asked for more. There's just no limit to what you can do with cubes... 8000 cubes is fine for ordinary levels...
:roll:

*Speaking of which, maybe I should exercise in the art of Object-architecture, to fill out minor details. Won't serve LPC though, due to the way it is. As a side note, it's convenient that LPC stalls this period of time, because it appears that DLE is growing along with it. (generating those nasty reports)
:mrgreen:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Sirius » Sat Feb 18, 2012 9:53 am

Yeah, when I was using it enough to notice bugs, it usually meant I was working on something. Alas, it has been some time since that happened, and the texture alignment fiddling in Azure Catacombs didn't cause anything to crash.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby pokeman7452 » Sat Feb 18, 2012 8:32 pm

karx11erx wrote:Descent uses a signed short as vertex index (max. value = 32767).

Why use signed numbers for an index? Use unsigned and double the max value? Or are you talking about D1?
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