Bump Maps

All other topics around Descent and D2X-XL

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karx11erx
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Postby karx11erx » Thu Nov 29, 2007 10:33 pm

You are just dreaming w/o any technical background.

There are 1000s of Descent levels which cannot just be abandoned by changing the lighting algorithms. There are no tools for doing what you are imagining.

Best thing to do is to get this all over to another engine. That's what I am dreaming of.
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Postby -JoFFa- » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:18 am

karx11erx wrote:You are just dreaming w/o any technical background.

There are 1000s of Descent levels which cannot just be abandoned by changing the lighting algorithms. There are no tools for doing what you are imagining.

Best thing to do is to get this all over to another engine. That's what I am dreaming of.


Yup. I imagining. But i must admit - and hope that you get my drift - that by porting it to the other engine - does not solve the problem of more then 3 lights shooting shadows tin a 1000 descent levels which allready exist. So i guess it does not matter if i have tech skills or background or not to try to solve the puzzle - this solvation is IMHO - a fruit of pure logic.
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Postby karx11erx » Fri Nov 30, 2007 12:21 pm

I do not agree. Even if placing as many lights in an identically formed mine in another engines map editor should make the editor/engine combo handle it properly for the engine.
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Postby -JoFFa- » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:07 pm

Ok.then let me tell you.

1. In a room where we have a lot of light sources - there wont be any harsh shadows. It will be somekind of blurry spot - and it will be the shadow but this shadow will be decayad due to the quantity of light sources. due to the bouncing light etc. - so when we talk about shadows like in Doom 3 - this only possible when there is only one - treee lights - and theyre extremely bright.

So i guess in case of a descent levels - which allready exist and therefore hard to be altered- should be something like a pre-computation of combined lights sources summed emmiters for each of the room. there we have an N-gon where every corner - is an existed light source and from a middle of this Ngon we have a normel and it goes outside of the mine fo some distance - and there computed the one light emmiter - but it sums all existed and cast shadows which is not exact relative to the light sources of the level - but - the shadow itselfis so blurry - that its absolutely no prblem as its not seen clearly. Ill post a graphic representation in a couple of hours. If you want of course. so far i afreaid it not to become a feature request. Which it does not! :D
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Postby MetalBeast » Fri Nov 30, 2007 2:52 pm

Sorry, let me stop the discussion.
Bump-Mapping for the existing d2x-xl engine is crap and probably would kill the FPS finally.

So you can think about bump-mapping only in relation with a new engine. Point.
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Postby karx11erx » Fri Nov 30, 2007 5:02 pm

MetalBeast wrote:Bump-Mapping for the existing d2x-xl engine is crap and probably would kill the FPS finally.

I am afraid MB is 100% on the spot.
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Postby -JoFFa- » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:40 pm

karx11erx wrote:
MetalBeast wrote:Bump-Mapping for the existing d2x-xl engine is crap and probably would kill the FPS finally.

I am afraid MB is 100% on the spot.


yup - agree - but if you зщеке it to another - levels existed allready - would have to be reconverted? or suddenly - other engine will increase perfomance in comparison with existing engine when b-maps are on?
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Postby MetalBeast » Fri Nov 30, 2007 9:51 pm

dude, just read some articles about graphic-engines and how they work and stop askinng annoying questions...
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Postby -JoFFa- » Fri Nov 30, 2007 10:48 pm

MetalBeast wrote:dude, just read some articles about graphic-engines and how they work and stop askinng annoying questions...



fine...whatever
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Postby karx11erx » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:00 pm

MetalBeast wrote:dude, just read some articles about graphic-engines and how they work and stop askinng annoying questions...

You don't need to feel offended because he doesn't ask you. And I just don't feel offended. Let him ask.

Joffa,

just look at the DOOM3/Quake 4 engine and see what it can do at what framerate. That should answer your questions, and that is something so much at hand that you could have well thought of it yourself.
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Postby MetalBeast » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:16 pm

I don't feel offended, just in ever thread, he is asking same way.

The most his questions are some kind of "why is the bannana not straight?"
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Postby karx11erx » Fri Nov 30, 2007 11:21 pm

I don't see his questions this way. He is rather trying to find out about the possibilities and limitations of a modern graphics engine, I'd say. He could however do some of the thinking by himself. :P
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Postby Aus-RED-5 » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:34 am

hehe - MB, lets not forget we have an Admin Forum and PMing for such rants. :lolol:
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Postby Sirius » Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:21 am

An engine like Doom 3 would probably only consider the nearest few light sources or try to merge light sources together for the purposes of bump mapping.
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Postby -JoFFa- » Sat Dec 01, 2007 1:37 pm

karx11erx wrote:
MetalBeast wrote:dude, just read some articles about graphic-engines and how they work and stop askinng annoying questions...

You don't need to feel offended because he doesn't ask you. And I just don't feel offended. Let him ask.

Joffa,

just look at the DOOM3/Quake 4 engine and see what it can do at what framerate. That should answer your questions, and that is something so much at hand that you could have well thought of it yourself.


I cant understand this. s tuff..I'm mor eof an artist architect 3d modeller - and never been a programmer in any way. All i can say is a concept.

I also want to admit that its probably causу you think im talking about Bump maps - and i'm sorry but i guess i deviaterd from subj and started to talk about solvation of the problem of lots of lights in a level for d2xxl and porting it to Q4 engine.

But...i guess we will see some day how its done.
Last edited by -JoFFa- on Sat Dec 01, 2007 2:27 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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