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Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 6:47 am
by Sirius
Um. Doesn't keys/reactor get incredibly boring pretty fast?

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 7:36 am
by Yokelassence
He might be refering to just the simplicity of having a standardised set of goals to complete a level.

Who wants to go through another round of blue key => yellow key => red key => reactor => exit?

All of my own missions follow a different strategy.

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:46 am
by karx11erx
I prefer varying mission objectives, too. I find it much more exciting to lets say defend a hostage transport than to gather 3 keys, blow a reactor and find the exit in time again and again.

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 8:59 am
by Gatling
Sirius wrote:Um. Doesn't keys/reactor get incredibly boring pretty fast?

Not really...I think I've played all missions of Descent and that's in the hundreds I think and never thought for a second that this concept is boring, though I don't mind variation with other ways of completing a level.

Well about D3 ...I agree with karx11erx points..
Everething was to colorfull, robots didn't look that great, etc..

Thing I really didn't like beside those points was the music.. IMO it was garbage compared to the descent 2 music and think that it's very important for a game to have good music.

I still enjoyd the game though..

Posted: Wed Aug 06, 2008 11:21 am
by Sirius
D1 + D2 + Vertigo gives you 84 levels all up I think. Custom missions would be more.

Played all the originals myself and many third-party missions too, but the good ones of those usually tried to pretend you were doing a little more than just a key hunt to get to the reactor. It didn't really matter since the main reasons I played them were to see interesting designs, and to get a reasonable challenge (but hopefully not a frustrating one!). But I wouldn't give the benefit of the doubt if a game were released more recently and pulled the same kind of thing. The time for such things passed long ago.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:06 am
by CH-3
I'm not saying that i don't like D3 puzzles at all, but i prefer the simplicity of the old ones.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 8:35 am
by Aus-RED-5
Hummm.... I liked D3 for it's multi player part of it. Even though is was way different then D1 & D2.
It was just fun being with a huge group of people killing one another left, right, and center on one server! Good 'ol fun, much like the D2 days!
Except for now days. :cry:

But the single player part of it sucked really bad for me. It wasn't the puzzles and so on that made it suck for me.
It was more about how hard it was to hit and kill some bots and maneuvering through the environment. It just didn't work or feel right compared to D1 or D2. :?

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 10:50 am
by Sirius
When I played Unreal 1 recently, it made me realise just how much better Descent 3 could have been. :)

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:05 am
by Gatling
Yes Unreal 1 was a very good game and there are in fact still many ppl that play this game online on the contrary to all of the later releases that apart from UT2004 were utter crap.
some video of Unreal 1 I guess it's hard to make a good sequal and that's also the reason why I don't expect that much from D4 when it will be released some day as UT3 (latest release of unreal tournament) was the disapointment of the century. :(

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 11:30 am
by karx11erx
How good a Descent 4 would be would depend on the available money and time and the vision and focus of the development manager and team.

Posted: Fri Aug 08, 2008 6:56 pm
by Red_5
I enjoy D3's multiplayer a little more than D2 because it works for me. For some reason, D2X-XL is harder for me to set up.

...And moddable weapons turns me on, too.

--But the Campaign possibilities that have been unlocked with D2X-XL are amazing! I see the potential to create campaigns to match the quality of Halo without having to use scripting! The trigger and message structures are perfect! Boiling point was a great example of beginning to unlock the potential of the way these features are set up.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 12:46 am
by Sirius
Yeah that video demonstrates it pretty well. Unreal of course doesn't look that good any more but the environments, at least in concept, are outstanding. It's more down to the level designers and their creativity than anything else; they knew how to make stuff grab your attention. There were some awesome boat rides and similar things that could have come straight out of Myst or Riven.

Descent 3 had the ability to do many of the same things (of course, the 6DOF model paradoxically limits your options for such sequences a bit!) but never quite showed the same ingenuity. I guess some of this comes down to storyline though - it's kind of tricky to make a series of missions particularly interesting or memorable (level 6, the Mars one where you search for the Phoenix ship, came close, but seemed to be heavily inspired by the better U1 temple levels), whereas Unreal was basically a journey through an alien world, and they could do whatever they felt like.

As far as multiplayer goes, UT1 was probably better for that than the original Unreal for various reasons. UT3 was really fun to play (especially when you found their 6DOF ships, the Fury and Raptor) but I'm not certain how good the balance is in comparison. And, of course, the single player wasn't much to speak of, but it never is in the UT line.

Red_5 - the system in D2X-XL is way more powerful than it used to be, but it isn't quite on the same level as scripting. You can set up enemy appearances pretty well using some trickery, and of course there are all the travel effects etc. Wouldn't be possible to handle any kind of dialogue though ... of course D2 doesn't let you have that anyway, so...

I should note though, you couldn't replicate D3 level 14 without scripting, or very complex triggers.

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 1:34 pm
by Kaizerwolf
Here's my take (i'm not going to be pointing fingers or assigning blame here, just going to explain what i believe)

Descent 3 was made to challenge the mind. I'm quite sure the developers saw the redundancy in getting keys over and over in a semi-tight enclosed level. Descent 3 re-created the flying engine for the series, allowing for outside levels to be more easily accessed and rendered. For 1999? It look pretty damn good :)

Posted: Sat Aug 09, 2008 5:38 pm
by Alter-Fox
I think D3 is fun, even in singleplayer, but D2X-XL is much better graphically and gameplay-wise, and it's so much easier to build levels for.

Posted: Sun Aug 10, 2008 10:39 pm
by Sirius
Sadly the most challenging part of Descent 3 turned out to be hitting those damned robots. But yes the goals, as well as just the terrain/geometry/etc, were a big highlight of the single-player campaign.