D2X-XL V1.14 BETA

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Postby darkflamewolf » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:16 pm

found a pretty serious CTD hud error bug and an automap bug. Switched a few settings on my browser and sourceforge works again. Weird. So I posted them up as tickets. Yay.
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Postby Sykes » Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:52 pm

Darklord, I have been experiencing this same bug for maybe 11 Beta releases. I'll work with you on trying to find out.

Diedel, I will post my d2x.ini and profile up on a new bug report, as my old one was referring to an old version, like Beta 9.

karx11erx wrote:
darkflamewolf wrote:Flares still don't give off any light.


If I could only figure why. :wallbash:


It still boggles my mind how it doesn't show up for you. Would it be one of the bugs that don't show up in "Debug" mode, or whatever you always mention? Whatever I can do to help.
Last edited by Sykes on Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby darklord42 » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:08 pm

Ok, the post about using a default player was ridiculous, of course, because light maps weren't enabled to begin with, I'll definitely keep playing with it. Unfortunately with the latest version, I keep getting a CTD upon launching a mission when using that profile, so I'm trying to isolate what could be the problem. Though it should be noted with a clean slate, all d1 textures are working fine.
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Postby Pumo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:12 pm

Sykes wrote:It still boggles my mind how it doesn't show up for you. Would it be one of the bugs that don't show up in "Debug" mode, or whatever you always mention? Whatever I can do to help.


As i said before, it seems it's related to GeForce cards, 'cause it seems that everyone that reports that bug is a GeForce user (me included), while Diedel is an Ati user.
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Postby Sykes » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:19 pm

Pumo wrote:
Sykes wrote:It still boggles my mind how it doesn't show up for you. Would it be one of the bugs that don't show up in "Debug" mode, or whatever you always mention? Whatever I can do to help.


As i said before, it seems it's related to GeForce cards, 'cause it seems that everyone that reports that bug is a GeForce user (me included), while Diedel is an Ati user.


And Diedel swiftly scolded you for that :D But it could be a possibility. I just wish the game worked on the other computers in our house so I could test it.
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Postby Pumo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:32 pm

Oh yeah, and he was right, as this is not a Hardware issue. I'm just saying that this 'may' have something to do with some problems on the Drivers of nVidia, not the hardware itself.
nVidia Drivers are known for not being always the best :roll:
But also as Diedel said, it's pretty likely it's a bug from D2X-XL itself.


The sound is somehow working.
However, i still can't hear hi-res sounds even if they are installed on sounds2 folder and if '-hires_sound 2' switch is enabled and most important, i can still hear distortion/crackle when using OGG music (and i've tested with 22KHz resampled OGG music and 22KHz sounds to avoid mixing resolutions). :(

It think the old method, alghough it decreased OGG quality was better (when using lo-res sounds decreasing OGG to 8-bit). I hadn't any problem when using that method.

Also although expanding the buffer fixed the distortion problem (only when not using OGG music) there's now a small delay (the sound plays some miliseconds after you e.g. fire the laser). That's normal when expanding sound buffer size (i have to deal with that latency issues when using synthesizers).

So i still insist to go back to the old archaic method used on beta8 and below (where sound wasn't forced to 16 bit to acomodate OGG music and OGG music was decreased to 8-bit to acomodate sound). I definitely vote for a go-back!

It's true that music sounded a bit noisy on past versions, but sound was more stable nowadays and without the need of an expanded buffer size.
Of course, Diedel will decide what is best ;)
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:24 pm

Actually I haven't changed audio handling, and these problems are present in v1.13.127 too, so I don't know what's going on here.
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Postby Pumo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:40 pm

Agh! i'm confused! :shock:
I've just tested 1.13.127 and i don't see the sounds problems at all, and so i believed they started to happen on recent betas, as you said that to make OGG music sound better the lo-res sounds were resampled to 16-bit and i tought that was causing the recent issues, and it seems the distortion problems started with that change.

But it seems you're experiencing issues since 1.13.127... This is indeed pretty strange :?

So it may be a problem with SDL_mixer? This sound issues is starting to be a PITA for both of us :P
(and more 'cause i'm somewhat picky about sound related issues ) :roll:
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:49 pm

As I said: I haven't changed any of the SDL calls and parameters of these in 1.14, just some of the management stuff around it. I have no fricken clue what's going on here.
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Postby Pumo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:03 pm

OK, i understand. So this is still full of misteries :P

Just in case it serves you for further research on this issue, here you can find some samples (very more detailed than previous ones) that shows the exact problem i'm having with sound & music:

Sample 1: http://www.goaruna.com/o2j
On this sample, i'm using 1.13.127 with lo-res sounds and custom OGG music from playlist. The OGG music is 44KHz 16-Bit Stereo and the lo-res sounds 22KHz 8-bit. As you will notice, there's no problem at all.

Sample 2: http://www.goaruna.com/o2k
On this sample, i'm using the new Beta13 with the same scenario as the previous Sample (OGG hi-res, sound lo-res). Unlike previous version, this one has the sound distorted.

Sample 3:
http://www.goaruna.com/o2l
Lastly, on this sample i'm using Beta13 with with different scenario (and it seems it's much worse!). On this one i'm playing PM with lo-res sounds & per-level OGG music. The OGG music on this one is 22KHz and the sounds are 22KHz 8-bit (from the .s22 file). This time both music & sound are at the same samplerate, but still the problem is there.

You'll notice how the sound is heavily distorted on Beta13 most of the time.

This is indeed excesively confusing :wallbash:
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:05 pm

I have found a bug I have introduced that was still present in beta 13 and prevented hires sounds from being loaded.

So the current state is that hires sound has good quality, but low res sound does not because D2X-XL resamples it and doesn't do that well (probably destroys some non-sound information in the wav file). Looks like I will have to write a full blown wav format parser for proper resampling. Oh the pain.
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Postby Sykes » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:19 pm

If a third party may help, I use hires sounds 2 (44 Khz, or whatever) with original (non-redbook) music, and I hear no distortion with music, and no delay of sound. The only thing I hear is a little "click" when any hires sound is played. There IS an old thread about this created long ago that Karx addressed and reduced the intensity of (it used to be so loud you couldn't handle it). I can find this if you want.

Maybe this info helped.

EDIT: This was only up to beta 12. In Beta 13, hires sounds don't work at all. NOTHING WAS CHANGED since I got Beta 13 and now I can't hear sounds at all. I made sure I had hires_sounds 2 and that the folder "sounds2" still existed, and I can't hear anything.
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Postby Pumo » Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:44 pm

The distortion is just present when you use custom OGG music (and for some strange reason, when using mod sounds, even if music is disabled). If you're using original non-redbook (MIDI) music you won't notice a problem (at least not on Beta13).

If you want to make testing, try using an OGG file of your preference (and a plain text playlist, of course) and specify it with the '-playlist <playlistname>' switch, and disable hi-res sounds. I'm pretty sure you will notice the distortion that way.
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:32 pm

I think I know now why low res sounds are distorted when being played with SDL mixer (hires isn't). Despite its name, SDL_mixer's WAV loader expects a full blown wav file including various headers and not just the raw data. Now the hires sounds do have these headers and proper format, while the low res sounds (the original Descent sounds) don't.

I don't really know who I should curse for this: Parallax for not using fully specified WAV, or SDL_mixer for expecting full WAV data when it says it accepts raw data.

Heck, I think SDL_mixer is to get the blame.

I will try to add proper headers to the low res sounds. :wallbash:

If I am lucky adding the headers is easy. I just hope one data chunk per sound will do ... :think:

Edit:

I have been adding the headers, they are in the right format, have the proper data, but the clicking at the start and end of low res sounds is still there, and it's worse with the original 8 bit sounds just resampled to stereo than when upsampling it to 16 bit sounds, for which I have been able to get rid of the clicks by fading the sounds in an out (strangely enough, fading doesn't help at all with 8 bit sounds).

What I am experiencing from time to time is bad crackling in sounds, and that is when first having played 8 bit sounds, then turned on ogg music (causing the entire audio system including SDL and SDL_mixer to being shut down and initialized again with a different audio format). Immediately using the audio format suitable for ogg doesn't seem to cause these problems. Most curious about this is that this problem doesn't occur in 1.13.127, and I cannot see any difference in the audio calls I am making.
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Postby Yokelassence » Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:32 pm

Pumo wrote:As i said before, it seems it's related to GeForce cards, 'cause it seems that everyone that reports that bug is a GeForce user (me included), while Diedel is an Ati user.


Slight topic diversion:

I just wanted to quickly point out that I also had that "broken flares" issue but I use an ATi Card...In fact it uses the exact same drivers that Diedel has

However I only encountered it when using a new profile. This bug is not present on my old profile from 1.13.127.

Some food for thought.

(return to sound discussion)
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