Year of the Tiger

All about modding, mapping and modeling for D2X-XL

Moderators: Frustikus, simX, Aus-RED-5

Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Year of the Tiger

Postby Sirius » Wed Dec 22, 2010 5:40 am

Wasn't going to publish a preview of this yet - I would have preferred to show finished content - but facing facts I'm unlikely to finish this in the correct year (think I have about a month, and the remaining work could be painstaking and possibly even require some software work) so I figured I might as well prove I at least started it then...

Textures are just placeholders (and are not even aligned, this is probably pretty obvious) but it should get the idea across of what I'm aiming for. Once I have that sorted and figure out the Blender stuff it should look quite a bit better... ideally I wanted to playtest it (hence the weapons) before settling on the final cube structure but I've had difficulty with finding people online at the right time, so who knows when that will happen or to what extent.

Image
Image
User avatar
Sapphire Wolf
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:45 pm
Location: nope.avi , gender: male
Contact:

Postby Sapphire Wolf » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:10 am

:omg:
Ack! My eyes!
It looks marvelous!
How did you manage to convert blender stuff into Descent 2 blocks? I would like to know!
My Deviant Art account-
http://sapphirewolf3057.deviantart.com

specs for Teletraan:
Brand- Custom Built
Processor- Intel Core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
RAM- 16 GB
Video- NVidia GeForce GTX 760
Sound- Realtek HD Audio
Hard Drive- 1 TB
OS- Windows 7 (64 bits) Professional

Who can I argue with cool things, Mech-Poké-Form-Troid-Robo-Glasses-Nerd-Fortress-Portal
Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Postby Sirius » Wed Dec 22, 2010 6:16 am

I haven't - just planned to use a few as props for the stuff that isn't even worth attempting to make with cubes. Everything you see there was created with DLE-XP only.
User avatar
Sapphire Wolf
Posts: 321
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:45 pm
Location: nope.avi , gender: male
Contact:

Postby Sapphire Wolf » Wed Dec 22, 2010 7:45 am

oh, okay.
I thought you've mentioned about the software, Blender
My Deviant Art account-
http://sapphirewolf3057.deviantart.com

specs for Teletraan:
Brand- Custom Built
Processor- Intel Core i7-4770 CPU @ 3.40 GHz
RAM- 16 GB
Video- NVidia GeForce GTX 760
Sound- Realtek HD Audio
Hard Drive- 1 TB
OS- Windows 7 (64 bits) Professional

Who can I argue with cool things, Mech-Poké-Form-Troid-Robo-Glasses-Nerd-Fortress-Portal
User avatar
CH-3
Posts: 58
Joined: Wed Aug 06, 2008 3:57 am

Postby CH-3 » Thu Dec 23, 2010 9:00 am

Definitely the lavafalls looks very beautiful :)
User avatar
Alter-Fox
Posts: 1131
Joined: Mon Mar 31, 2008 7:29 pm
Location: some other reality

Postby Alter-Fox » Fri Dec 24, 2010 5:59 am

Very nice.

Now I understand why you were posting all the bug reports about DLE-XP on the bugs tracker :D .

Will it support robo-anarchy?
We live in a universe... It's distracting
=========================================================
beware of ounce
Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Postby Sirius » Sat Dec 25, 2010 12:33 am

It's a small to mid-size multiplayer level aimed at 2-4 player games... I'm not sure how good it'd be in robo-anarchy. But I can still think about it...
Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby Sirius » Wed Mar 02, 2011 9:27 am

Starting to find my way around Blender enough to finish up most of the rest of the detail, but after seeing what happens in game I'm not convinced this level is ever going to work. It's pretty clear now that I am completely abusing the engine ... and it's not clear that D2X-XL can be made to support it (though I guess I'll have to wait for Diedel to get back to me with "stop this insanity" to be sure :mrgreen:).

If all else fails I might have to try to detail everything in cubes. The thing that worries me about that isn't really the number of cubes (many cubes do make texturing hell on earth, but at least that fits the theme of the level), it's trying to model that detail in an engine that doesn't support tetragonal or triangular prism segments... I could always "illegal cube geometry" the place up, but when you get that warning there is usually a good reason for it (actually I have a cube in the level that doesn't trip that warning that still causes the player ship to stick in it ... and eats weapon fire ... still have to fix that).
User avatar
karx11erx
D2X-XL Master
D2X-XL Master
Posts: 8111
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Wilferdingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby karx11erx » Wed Mar 02, 2011 12:13 pm

Did you read my reply to the bug ticket regarding the stairs collision problem? While this will work with advanced collision detection (hit boxes), there is no way to make it work with standard collision detection (hit spheres).
Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby Sirius » Wed Mar 02, 2011 5:05 pm

I saw. I just also noticed that I'm going to have problems with any objects that are larger than one cube, because if the centre of the object isn't visible from where the player is, none of it will be rendered. The stairs are probably OK, but the rock thing probably isn't.
User avatar
karx11erx
D2X-XL Master
D2X-XL Master
Posts: 8111
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Wilferdingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby karx11erx » Wed Mar 02, 2011 7:09 pm

Sirius wrote:I saw. I just also noticed that I'm going to have problems with any objects that are larger than one cube, because if the centre of the object isn't visible from where the player is, none of it will be rendered.

Actually this shouldn't be that case.
Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby Sirius » Thu Mar 03, 2011 3:24 am

I guess that is true. Fixing it would mean an increase in objects rendered though ... well, maybe.

Just wanted to point out re: your comment in SF bug 3197080 (since I can't comment directly on closed bugs) - I noticed that the .bin files were being generated in the main Descent 2 directory. I can foresee this having side-effects, though, because I suspect that these files would then override those polymodels in all D2 missions, not just the one they're included in. Mod folders would probably avoid this issue, although for a single-level mission, including files in the .HOG seemed a tidier organization to me.

Back to polymodels as level geometry in general again - it sounds like it might not be quite so unreasonable to do it in most cases, but there are a couple here I have questions about. First is that visibility issue - it seems to stem from the way Descent 2 (probably D1 as well) decides whether to draw a robot/player ship/other model or not, which is probably based on the visibility of the cube that contains the object. That's normally an accurate way to determine it, except when the object is much bigger than the cube - or extends far past the bounds of the cube in some direction at least, as in this case. Is that really fixable outside of always drawing the object (which has its own drawbacks)? I'm not sure whether there's any efficient way of knowing whether it's going to be in sight or not otherwise, but I'm not exactly a 3d graphics whiz.

Second issue is collision detection. Even advanced collision detection is based on submodel bounding boxes. That works well for the steps, which have a shape that pretty well matches a rectangular prism anyway, but it isn't likely to work well for the rock. Unfortunately the only thing that would is per-polygon collision detection, and worse, it would have to be able to apply when the player ship and object to collide with are in totally different cubes. That sounds like it'd be frighteningly slow to me, especially since this isn't the only object to collide with in the level (well, I guess individual objects could be flagged for this behaviour, maybe it'd be required that they were always static so it would be possible to pre-calculate which cubes collisions need to be checked in...). Is this worth filing a feature request for, or would I be better advised to find a different way to do this (one that doesn't require players to use a specific physics option to play, perhaps)?
User avatar
Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posts: 260
Joined: Mon Jan 26, 2009 9:56 pm
Location: Tatooine
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby Obi-Wan Kenobi » Sat Mar 05, 2011 9:22 am

This looks wonderful Sirius :cheers: Always loved your levels they are very inspiring, thanks man for your work! :clap: :cheers:
Gradinko: Dual Pentium !!!/EB 1000, 4x 512MB PC-133 ECC Reg HP/Micron Crucial, ABiT VP6
Sveta: Dual OpteronMP 850 CG, 2x 1024MB PC-3200 ECC Reg Kingston Value Ram, MSI MS-9130 K8T Master2-FAR
Firefox: Dual OpteronDP 285 E6, 4x 2048MB PC-3200 ECC Reg HP/Micron Tech Server Ram, ASUS K8N-DL
Blue-Leader: Dual OpteronDP 2435 D0, 4x 4096MB PC2-6400 ECC Reg Kingston Value Ram, Supermicro H8DAE-2
Valkyrie: Project G34 Under Construction
User avatar
karx11erx
D2X-XL Master
D2X-XL Master
Posts: 8111
Joined: Mon Sep 24, 2007 8:48 pm
Location: Wilferdingen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby karx11erx » Sat Mar 05, 2011 1:24 pm

Actually Descent tests whether a polymodel extends into other segments than where its center is, and for rendering purposes is temporarily linked (not moved) to that segment so that the object gets rendered. If that doesn't work I'd be grateful for a sample level and savegame.

The model bin files should end up in the models subfolder and nowhere else. Bug?

I will not implement per pixel collision detection.

Building complex geometry with objects (polymodels) is not a thing you should do with the Descent 1/2/XL engine.
Sirius
Posts: 1987
Joined: Tue Sep 25, 2007 10:29 pm
Location: Bellevue, WA
Contact:

Re: Year of the Tiger

Postby Sirius » Sat Mar 05, 2011 8:45 pm

OK, the issue with the model disappearing was observable in the level linked with the last bug, if you fly down the stairs you'll see the rock flash in and out of view at a few points. I'll file a bug on the other issue in the next few minutes.

Return to “D2X-XL Mapping & Modding”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest