Warp Zones?

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homeyduh
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Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Wed Jun 10, 2015 1:54 pm

Xonotic - Warpzones on Glowplant: https://youtu.be/lOrUJsg7DB8

Xonotic: Hyperspace demo: https://youtu.be/ORh6NfQRDxg

Is it possible to add something like this into D2XXL? I would Shit myself as a mapper if it's possible.
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby karx11erx » Wed Jun 10, 2015 4:04 pm

Warpzones basically are 3D spaces that teleport you somewhere, right?

You could something like that with fly-through triggers on invisible walls.
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Wed Jun 10, 2015 8:53 pm

Well not just the players, but weapons, powerups, etc. I'm sure we could make the illusion of such a thing by having a player turn a corner into a teleported with the area behind the teleported looking exactly like the area you're teleporting to. The only thing is that when the player teleports, they need to be in the same position after the port as they were before the port, otherwise it'll look weird. It'll also look weird if a player shoots into the teleporter while flying through it only to see their weapons disappear when they make the jump. Is it possible to make weapons and powerups teleport as well?
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby karx11erx » Thu Jun 11, 2015 9:04 am

So you see the warp area's destination area when looking at the warp area?
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Thu Jun 11, 2015 12:24 pm

Exactly. It's called seamless warping I think. It gives the illusion that you never were teleported in the first place. If you see the videos, you can kinda see it how it works so you don't even realize you're teleporting
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby karx11erx » Thu Jun 11, 2015 1:33 pm

I saw the videos. It worked so seamlessly that I didn't even notice the effect. :P
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Thu Jun 11, 2015 5:26 pm

Imagine the possibilities combining that with Descent? You could literally have teleporters that send someone from heading the x direction to the z direction with ease, seamlessly. If we could get that seamless effect into D2XXL, I'll start to purely map in D2XXL XD
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby karx11erx » Thu Jun 11, 2015 8:24 pm

I will not implement that. I don't think that it's worth the effort - not because the feature wouldn't be bad, but because D2X-XL isn't popular enough, and there is hardly anybody mapping for it. Sorry.

If I wanted to spend a lot more time on Descent, I would start porting it to UE4, and add some good AI code to it. But I cannot see that happening, either. I have spent more than enough of my lifetime on this program, and wasted way too much energy dealing with people who had nothing better to do than fight me and D2X-XL.
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Fri Jun 12, 2015 1:27 am

And there's nothing we can do to change your mind? XD I REALLY want this. This, and a procedurally generated SP mode XD haha I'd even get into making a buncha maps in D2XXL. Even the normal teleports make me want to map for D2XXL XD
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karx11erx
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby karx11erx » Fri Jun 12, 2015 7:34 am

Nothing. How many people do you think will care about new D2X-XL maps? As good as none about multiplayer, a couple hundred about singleplayer. Of these, you will hear or read from less than 10 whether they liked your product. Why don't you wait for the SolC release and add such a feature with the UE4 engine to it?

I also think that right now you are having big plans, but have you ever built a Descent level? How about starting with that first, and once you have built something worth while, we can talk about new features? Enthusiasm is great, but it has to stand the test of all the hard work that is required to build a good Descent level.
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby Sirius » Fri Jun 12, 2015 4:37 pm

Since he already does UDK work I'm pretty sure that can happen, but it remains an awful lot of work.

Procedural generation, likewise. I'm thinking I could implement a prototype for something like that outside D2X-XL, but... the question is how it would work. Item placement is a lot easier than generating geometry - I suspect it'd need to use templates to look any good. And it might still be kind of boring in practice.
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Sat Jun 13, 2015 12:08 am

I've been talking to Phi Dinh of Sublevel Zero. He does the procedural generation for the game. Yes currently coding it in C#. Also, I actually officially released my first D1 map for the mapping contest. I've made maps before using DMB2 and DLE, but never on a serious scale. Just messing around basically. I think I did a decent job making a fairly simple, yet competitive map.

http://www.enspiar.com/dmdb/viewMission.php?id=1033
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 3:44 am

http://descentbb.net/viewtopic.php?f=22 ... 45#p353145

Apparently teleports are native in Descent, but you need special hex knowledge of the map files to do it. Is there a way to add the feature to force join cubes together, basically making a teleporter cube?
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby karx11erx » Sun Jun 14, 2015 8:10 am

Teleports are not native in Descent. The original games had a teleport fly through trigger type sending you to another level. However, when triggering such a teleport, the program would halt the match, load the other level, and place you in it.

A warp zone doesn't geometrically join levels or level areas. The engine renders the other level (area) at its confines so that it appears that the destination area would be seamlessly connected with the warp zone. When you enter the warp zone, the player position is just changed to the destination area. For the player this is not noticeable as long as both areas' overlapping zones are absolutely identical or join seamlessly.

Again, I will not add that the D2X-XL. It's not worth the effort. You have just built your first (or one of your first) Descent missions, and you are already asking for big engine additions. Go make a totally cool and stunning level that is already prepared for warp zones (i.e. has these identical transition areas), and I will add warp zones. I am 99.9% sure that I will not have to do so, because your enthusiam is most likely just a whim that will have cooled down soon. Experience dude, sorry.

Just to give you an idea: To build a really cool D2X-XL level you need weeks - if you already know how to utilize all its features. It took me three months to build Boiling Point, and then it still needed a lot of fixing. It took me several weeks to build Lunar Outpost Reloaded, and then it still needed fixing. And I am the guy who mainly maintains and enhances DLE, knows that program like nobody else and adds all the features to it he needs. I am the guy who solely maintains and enhances D2X-XL, knows it like nobody else, and adds all the features to it he needs. I think you get the idea.

I am not gonna jump into a buttload of coding work with D2X-XL just because you are having a fit of enthusiasm about a certain feature. You prove that my effort is worth it, and I will do it (or at least try to do it, because this is not a trivial renderer extension). There is no other way.
homeyduh
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Re: Warp Zones?

Postby homeyduh » Sun Jun 14, 2015 9:13 am

Ok sounds good. It'll take me awhile because I had twin daughters born just 10 days ago. The maps I'm planning to submit for the contest are going to be super simple, hopefully going for a minimalist, but great in gameplay sort of feel so it's not good practice for making something awesome with teleporters or anything. And don't worry, I understand your hesitation to add a feature just because a single person asks for it. You got bigger better things to take care of than to worry about just me :P even if I did make a level that could utilize warp zones, I don't expect you to move mountains for me either lol
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