So, what if we...

All about modding, mapping and modeling for D2X-XL

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Theftbot
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Postby Theftbot » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:48 am

Id support diedels move to nexuiz/darkplaces(resources, maps)it is a advanced engine. Bsp is way better than carve out.
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Postby Aus-RED-5 » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:08 am

I'll support whatever Diedel chooses to do. Whatever that maybe, you know he's good for it!


After all, he's the coder for this project. ;)
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Postby Sirius » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:04 am

Even if Diedel decides to work on ... a "D4X" or whatever it may be called ... such a project wouldn't necessarily be an ideal target for a project such as this, because it'd take him a lot of time to finish. We'll probably have to use the good old fashioned cube engine for this one.

Just a technical point, but from my understanding "BSP" refers to a group of engines from Doom to Quake 3 era, and specifically the method they used for visibility culling and (at first) determining polygon draw order. (Descent 1/2 incidentally used the same algorithm for drawing robots and other polymodels.) I don't believe it has anything to do with the method used to build the levels; Doom used a sector system not TOO different from Descent 1/2, while Quake used the editors with which you're more familiar. Unreal did in fact use a "carve out" system but I think was also BSP. Newer engines like id Tech 4 or UE2/3, I don't think even used BSP trees, despite having similar editors to their predecessors.
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Oct 18, 2008 9:30 am

BSP means "binary space partition". In principle that means dividing the space enclosing all faces by one plane so that half of the faces is on one side and half on the side. You continue treating both halves the same way until each space segment contains few enough faces to handle them. That makes visibility culling faster. You could create a BSP bases renderer from D2's segment structure too. It doesn't help with path finding though: You either need path points or a way to compute what's "inside" the mine and where you have to move to reach a destination somewhere else.
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Postby Wheeze87 » Sat Oct 18, 2008 6:34 pm

Yeah I used to play urban terror, I prefer the look of Nexuiz though, PLayed it for a bit tonight, and was very impressed. Some of the levels look gorgeous, complex, realistic lighting etc... Just imagining flying around in a pyro :)
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Postby Pumo » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:48 pm

I've just checked the Nexuiz site and it seems a pretty nice engine. With that engine, descent would be VERY nice. :)

Although it seems this Sirius' project is intented as a mission for normal D2X-XL (with the traditional cube engine).

So, i would really like to make a few levels also for this project, but this time i couln't afford it :( .
I'm way TOO busy with Pumo Mines and my work, and i really want to release a new PM version finally.

However, i might do some room shells (so someone else could use and join the rooms for a complete level) for this project as well as some graphic resources (signs/grates/monitor textures, etc...) from time to time. ;)

Also, if you want some music for the project, i can do it. :D
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Oct 18, 2008 7:55 pm

Dude, finish PM already. :P
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Postby Sirius » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:01 pm

It will be a cube-engine project unless D2X-XL supports anything more advanced within the timeframe of the project, which is all but guaranteed to be a "no".
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Postby karx11erx » Sat Oct 18, 2008 8:24 pm

Just downloaded and compiled Nexuiz plus the darkplaces source code, launched Nexuiz, changed some settings, clicked "apply" - BAM! CTD.

Debugging revealed similar problems with returning OpenGL contexts as I had fixed in D2X-XL recently. The latest ATI drivers are extremely intolerant towards any faulty handling of OpenGL contexts and data - it will inevitably cause crashes as soon as contexts are released. In D2X-XL this was caused by passing invalid texture handles when freeing up textures. Pretty hard to determine even for me. It is next to impossible to find out what's going wrong here in the Darkplaces engine. The only hope is that maybe its author will help.

Edit: Wheeeeee - employing my insane debugging skillz0r I managed to nail down that bug! It was as I suspected texture releasing related. I am sooooo fuckin' goooood! :mrgreen:

/me is off to the mirror

Nexuiz is running at ~100 fps on my machine @ 1680x1050 and ultimate settings.
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Postby Sirius » Mon Oct 20, 2008 12:21 am

OK, so after spending/wasting/whatever a few hours on thinking about this, this is the rough idea I have so far.

Background: You're a soldier involved in a desperate, brutal war between a pair of interstellar nations. (I'm giving the PTMC universe a rest for this one.) If it weren't bad enough, recently the other side has started to construct machines at an apparently impossible rate to join in the effort, and defeat appears inevitable, if not imminent. However your side has an ace in the hole; they've developed a prototype of an extremely powerful manned fighter that can be used in tight quarters (i.e., yes, in Descent-style levels). They've only had time to build one though, and as the best pilot they can get, you're sent on a covert-ops mission to find the secrets behind the production of these war machines and stop them for good. So you jump into a system that acts as a major production hub, and there your mission begins.

Level 1: Medium/large ice field level; you start off somewhere near one of the polar regions and look for a way into the base. At the end of the level you come across an outpost that contains a teleporter that will take you to your first destination. Fairly low robot presence; this place is supposed to be far-flung.
Level 2: Medium/large undersea R&D facility; the idea is to look for data/blueprints on the robots being produced, as well as where and how. You then blow the reactor powering this place to cover your tracks, and head down an escape tunnel into an underground "superhighway" network (using magnetic propulsion which for our purposes will just be wind tunnels) at which point the level ends.
Level 3: Picks up from where level 2 left off; you get detected at the next stop by the automatic security system and the tunnel shuts down and seals up ahead/behind, leaving you with nowhere to go but to the surface (chased by robots coming from materialisation centres). At that point you wind up in a canyon leading to a mining facility, which your intel told you provides a back way in to the robot production centre. You head down a long vertical mineshaft and the level will end.
Level 4: Medium-sized underground mine, with plenty of lava about. Moderate robot presence but they'll mostly be mining designs (mantids maybe?). Might be a secret exit somewhere in here, although I'm not sure what would be done with a secret level.
Level 5: Entrance to the robot production facility. Again probably average-sized, with the robot presence increasing to pretty heavy later on.
Level 6: Robot facility part 1; this place is armed to the teeth against external attack, not surprisingly, so there are a bunch of defences including nuclear missile silos. The point of this exercise is to arm them, and later you'll use them against targets on this planet itself. This level I expect will be pretty large, and very heavily populated.
Level 7: Robot facility part 2; you find the way up into a control tower with a view of the surface, and here you will do a couple things; firstly, upload a virus into the system which will be distributed to the robots (yes, I went there); secondly, do the "nuclear launch detected" thing. This building itself is fortified against nuclear strikes though, so it won't be damaged; you will still see the sky outside flash bright white before the windows close. Once they re-open, the scene outside has changed to an ashen wasteland.
Level 8: Robot facility part 3; now you have to destroy the place, but obviously since nukes don't work you'll need to do it within by tracing down the reactor and blowing it up. It has an exceptionally powerful robot defending it though, so it won't be easy.
Level 9: Escape from the robot facility. Basically places you in an exit shaft with a time limit, and you have to fight your way to the surface before the time runs out. Relatively small level, but possibly kind of long and windy.
Level 10: You emerge on the surface into a large crater, and just as a little finale, find a boss - this time a piloted ship - powering up there. There are a bunch of turrets scattered around the crater, with green lightning beams running from them to the boss - they basically make it invulnerable or give it significant regeneration (whatever works) until destroyed. So the idea is to kill them, and try not to die yourself, then take out the boss.

I know quite a lot of this will be ... difficult ... to do as-is, but this is basically a draft concept, and things may change to reflect what is really possible. With potential changes to D2X-XL coming up I figured it would be best to aim high at first, though.
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Postby Ben K » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:11 am

That could be quite interesting to see.
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Postby Alter-Fox » Mon Oct 20, 2008 1:56 am

Interesting... the last level I made would be perfect for level 4. I could send it to you if you like. I wouldn't mind donating it, I can always make a different level for my mission (this one doesn't fit in that much, anyway.)
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Postby Sirius » Mon Oct 20, 2008 9:39 pm

Maybe. I'm still waiting to see what direction the project goes in, though.
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Postby Kaizerwolf » Tue Oct 21, 2008 1:47 am

I think i can do something for the lava level. I have something in mind (and it's not blocky karx ;)) that might work out. Who knows though. I'll post some screenies later if i can...
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Postby Alter-Fox » Tue Oct 21, 2008 2:32 am

Here's a screenshot of my lava level:

Image

And here's another one:

Image

Are we allowed to modify the weaponry of the TEW robots? I was thinking that would let me balance my levels a lot better.

EDIT: If Kaizerwolf is going to do level 4, I think this level may work for level 5.

EDIT II: It would actually probably work better for level 5, seeing as it has lots of robots and matcens, especially near the end.
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