Development Blah: Comments

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Sirius
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Sirius » Sat Jun 07, 2014 7:28 am

I was trying to figure out whether there was a way to adjust VS2010 to auto-format using the format used by most of DLE and D2X-XL... it doesn't do that by default so previously I was editing it manually which is tedious. It seems there is an extension called AStyle which can be set up to get most of the way (but not quite all of it - array indexers aren't handled) using the following:
Style: Banner
Indent: Tab, 4 space
--pad-first-paren-out

If there's anything better I would be interested to hear of it, too. This particular indentation/padding style seems quite rare in the world at large so the tools seem to need to be fairly comprehensive to know what it is...
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Sat Jun 07, 2014 8:35 am

I am using an indent of 3 spaces (or tab positions every 3 spaces), not 4.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Mon Jun 09, 2014 11:59 am

WTF - can anybody tell me why Subclipse didn't check the Eclipse project files out of the source repo despite them being there? I had to install them manually to have a working Eclipse d2x-xl project again! :rant:
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby steel01 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 3:22 pm

Wow... I normally don't do much work on Sundays, but now I wish I'd have at least posted. I probably could have saved you a lot of trouble.

First, I'd have recommended against going back to Suse. That distro has done a lot of odd stuff over the last several years. Once upon a time (when you probably first picked it), it was a good distro. Now... Not so much. If you want a good, solid distro, look at either LMDE (Linux mint Debian edition) or SolydK. If you like KDE (SUSE's default desktop environment), go for SolydK. Only thing that might be a problem is that the packages aren't completely up to date. The whole stability vs. bleeding edge tradeoff. For these, anything that applies to Debian would apply. So you can Google for Debian help if needed. If you want the most up to date stuff, look at Fedora like I use. It has a KDE spin like I like and it's easy to set up for dev stuff. There's a small chance stuff might break, but I don't see that happening for a while. The last update problem they had a year or so ago was such a doozie they're going to be extremely careful testing updates for now. But either one should have everything needed in the repos. Fedora, I can guarantee it cause I don't have any manually compiled libs installed.

As for Eclipse, no clue. I use very little Eclipse. And I also don't use graphical version control stuff. All terminal for me there.

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:45 pm

The only problem I am having with OpenSUSE is that it tends to update itself to death over time. Sooner or late one of its automatic updates always broke my system.

I also tried Ubuntu (as a Debian based distro), and I hated it. I actually found OpenSUSE quite developer geared - at least compared to Ubuntu.

I have Eclipse up and Subclipse "half" working ... I currently cannot commit with it due to some installation / system quirk I cannot figure.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby steel01 » Mon Jun 09, 2014 5:57 pm

I don't like Ubuntu myself, but it's more because Canonical is a constant jerk to the community with things like Unity. Can't stand that interface. That's why I always recommend something else Debian based for stability. Like Mint. User friendly and stable.

Suse. I don't really even know what to say. I've heard other update failure stories too. And they sold out to Microsoft on a few things. And like you said, their downstream patches don't always work right. Don't judge Linux as a whole off of Suse. It's not a fair judgement.

So yeah, you've got it running now. If something fails again, load up Fedora (look for the KDE spin for the familiar interface). You also won't have to manually patch SDL and such.

Hmm... If you're running KDE (default in Suse), you should be able to use a svn plugin built into the file browser Dolphin. That or kdesvn. At least then you'd have a graphical fallback if you can't get subclipse to cooperate.

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Edit: Yay, Fedora! If you have any problems or questions, let me know. I know the system fairly well.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby Weyrman » Tue Jun 10, 2014 7:51 am

.34

I seem to have lost in the last few versions ship sounds and gatling sounds but I do have missile sounds.

As these have their own switches, could they have been not redirected with the changing of sound file locations?

I still don't have sound in default d2x-xl but I will try a complete re-install and see if that fixes any hidden corruption.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Tue Jun 10, 2014 2:11 pm

If your d2x-xl executable does not reside in the main game folder (with subfolders "textures", "sounds", "models", "missions", etc.) you need to specify the game (data) folder to d2x-xl using the -gamedir <folder> or -datadir <folder> command line parameters. You should modify d2x-xl's program shortcut (create one if you don't have one) and add that switch with the proper folder to it.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby steel01 » Wed Jun 11, 2014 2:56 pm

Question since I can't test atm: if d2x-xl can't find the resampled sounds, will it log what is missing? If not, can it? That sounds like what I was running into, but I would have sworn I had all of them available.

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Thu Jun 12, 2014 12:20 am

It does ... now. ;)
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby steel01 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 1:43 pm

Great, thanks. That'll be helpful once I have a chance to play with this again. Things have/are getting really busy, so that might be further out than I would like...

And chroot magic? Ya know, for someone that seems to not like Linux much and doesn't want to get too deep into it, you know the concepts pretty well. I know some devs that wouldn't have got anywhere near that far. Though, I am curious. Why did you need to mess with the bootloader? Grub 2 should autodetect all installed OSes. In any case, what do you think of Mint? Easier to work with? Everything but that JavaHL (whatever that is) in the repos and no manual lib compiles?

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:02 pm

Well ... I actually know a bit of Linux ... ;)

At least enough to find my way around with the help of Google. I am just not really fluent with it, and with Linux you need to get under the OS's hood far too often for my taste. Every distro has it's own share of peculiarities and problems you need to find your way around. I lost a lot of time with just finding out how to make Linux Mint ask for the root and not the user password for sudo, or how to get grub2 working and have a splash screen and a nicer font. OpenSUSE is pretty strong here and installs grub2 together with some nice themes and a graphical menu manager. I liked that. I would still be using it if it hadn't for all its broken libs. It made me give up when I had to rebuild Subversion because OpenSUSE had linked it against an outdated version of an SLL lib, resulting in my not being able to properly connect to the d2x-xl repo. Actually building and installing stuff on Linux isn't that much of an issue for me either, but it turned out that I would have need to build another lib from source, and yet another one, the source of which wasn't even available from a standard OpenSUSE repo. The thought of getting that source code directly off the internet, probably in a version that would be incompatible with my OpenSUSE install, made me switch to Mint.

What I like about Mint is that it's debian based (via it's Ubuntu roots), and debian is stable and rather well to handle via the command line. I am actually happier with apt-get than with a graphical package manager like Synaptic. My (virtual) d2x-xl server is running some debian version, and since I am managing myself, I had to configure and install quite some stuff on it to prevent forum stalls due to many people accessing it or the d2x-xl download server and stuff.

It's just that as I said I am not really fluent with it. If I am running into problems I understand enough to read through related stuff on the internet, figure a solution and implement it. But since once I am done I am usually not touching that stuff for considerable amounts of time, I forget enough of that to almost having to completely start over when the same or a similar issue arises. I remember some of the things I did, but not the details. That makes it very tedious to me to work with and on Linux.

Linux always was a productivity brake for me, forcing me to spend way to much time and effort on making the OS work the way I needed or wanted it instead of being able to focus on the work I wanted to do on it. As soon as you are trying to use Linux for more than just web browsing, e-mail, facebook, online banking and shopping, it's usability is going down the drain. The tools Linux offers particularly for software development imo cannot hold a candle to what MS Windows has in store (even the free ones, like Visual Studio Express Edition). MS Windows may not be as secure as Linux, but if it comes down to ease of installation and use as well as availability of good tools, it beats Linux by a margin.

Bottom line: I like Linux, and I can and do work with it, but when I want things to get done, I will switch to Windows. Just look at Eclipse: It's a slow, crash-prone memory hog compared to Visual Studio. On top of that, Eclipse doesn't even install right, neither on OpenSUSE (which currently doesn't even offer it via some repo) nor Mint (where you can install it from some repo). On both distros, you need to manually enter the proper JavaHL folder in eclipse.ini to make Subclipse work. Now Mint installs eclipse in /usr/share (if I remember right) and stores the ini file somewhere in /etc (that was at least the only location sudo find / -name eclipse.ini returned). Mint also has the latest JavaHL libs, so I edited that eclipse.ini; Yet Subclipse kept complaining about a wrong JavaHL version, demanding 1.7. My Mint installation has 1.8, and the TortoiseSvn site states that newer JavaHL versions would work, too. Clue? I had none, forcing me to download Eclipse right from the TortoiseSVN site, install it in my home folder for convenience, install the latest Subclipse (1.10) and point it to the JavaHL 1.8 libs on my system to finally make this work. Fortunately this is what I am fluent already with, so often did I have to do this.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby steel01 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:12 pm

Cool. Glad it's working out better. Only comment I have is that if you want to give the root password for a command, you want to use 'su -c $command' instead of sudo. Sudo by design is made to give a user root privileges for that command.

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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby karx11erx » Thu Jun 12, 2014 3:26 pm

I actually prefer going into su mode over sudo, since most of the stuff I need to do with admin privileges requires me to enter several (sometimes a lot) of commands.

From a security point of view, being able to qualify for sudo-ing a command using your account login password is pointless for me. What I would actually want is to be able to specify an extra sudo password for a user in the sudoers group. So I would have some additional security for sudo without having to switch to the root password here.
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Re: Development Blah: Comments

Postby steel01 » Thu Jun 12, 2014 4:31 pm

*comes back and reads last few posts again* There you go with those post edits again... :roll: I didn't see the last three quarters of your second to last post when I replied, so here goes.

Remember when I mentioned I didn't use Eclipse much? There are reasons for that... A pain to set up and use like you described is a big part of it. And to my knowledge, a lot of open source / Linux development doesn't use Eclipse. That's another unfair generalization. Install code::blocks and use my patch on SF to use cmake to generate a project. A quick Google should give you the command to do that. I personally find code blocks much simpler to use than VC. It's a bit different, but I think that's good. Take a look, you might like it.

It seems to me that the tools and setups you've used in the past weren't all that great and haven't improved. But there is other stuff out now that works so much better. Outside of Eclipse, have you had a productivity breaking situation yet? The boot animation and fonts are cosmetic. Great that it's open and can be changed, but shouldn't be a deal breaker. What else have you had problems with?

And a side note. Sudo isn't designed to give the keys to the kingdom. I don't like that aspect of Debian defaults. Sudo should only be granted for specific commands (say a user can handle network stuff, so ifconfig [and no, I'm not saying that's good security, just an example]). In that environment, the security model makes more sense.

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